Realistic cost to refit a 50ft cruising boat

[donradcliffe]

There are some 50 year old boats which are a lot better than anything modern. These boats were better built with better materials, with an emphasis on sea kindly motion and livability.

That being said, there are some 50 year old boats which are ready for the crusher. The important thing to realize is that there is not a whole lot of difference in current price between them, so don't waste your time and money fixing up a crusher.

[Bellinghamster]

Wow, a lot of negativity... personally I like deep-refitting boats, since when I'm done I know exactly what I've got, how it was installed and set up how I want it.

22 years ago did an extensive refit of a CSY44. Replaced engine (4-154 -> low hour used 4-236), aluminum fuel tanks, standing and running rigging, new chainplates, re-wired, new electrical panel, re-plumbed, added a windvane, new main sail, recut and re-stitched headsails to set up for furling, new furler, anchor, new refrigeration system.. a LONG list. I did all the work myself and have a knack for finding good deals on things. We crossed the Pacific in a well found seaworthy boat and had a great adventure for a budget that worked for us. All in we had about $100k into it, including boat purchase price and the cost of getting it from Puerto Vallarta. MX to Bellingham, WA (sailed to San Diego and trucked from there). After pulling personal gear off the boat we sold it in New Zealand for about $2k less than we had into it (the exchange rate wasn't in our favor). Of course my time was "free" (estimated around 800 hours).
I recently got our OLD website back online if you want to read more about it: http://imaginecruising.sailingonceag...t/the_boat.htm

Of particular interest, the "things to buy" and "things to do" lists. Note these were the initial budgeting/planning lists - didn't include the engine swap or a lot of other things that came up along the way, but might help you get your mind around what's involved in a refit:
http://imaginecruising.sailingonceag...ings_to_do.htm
http://imaginecruising.sailingonceag...ngs_to_buy.htm


Current boat is a 1978 Gulfstar 50 ketch, bought for $45k, replaced the engine with a 2018 75hp yanmar with 600hrs on it ($7k) all new sails, stack pack and Tides Track ($12k), 66lb Bruce ($100 used), 200ft of 3/8 chain ($250 used), rader ($1700), refrigeration (~$250 in parts), running rigging ($500-ish), 10ft inflatable ($900 used), windvane ($1250) and probably $3-5k in misc. bits. . I still need to replace standing rigging, house batteries, add solar, bottom paint... probably another $15-20k. Estimating we'll have a little under $100k (not counting my time) into a boat worth around $100k, and yes, it's still a 1978 boat with tired cosmetics. The CSY was definitly worth the effort. I'm not sure this one is/was, but it was the only boat we could find at the time that fit our requirements that didn't need MORE work.

[Shanachie]

Of course, the big question these days is insurance.


Not many companies seem willing to write policies on large boats that old these days. And you can't get into the vast majority of marinas and boatyards without insurance.


The other issue is that EVERYTHING is worn out and outdated on a 50-year-old boat unless it has been replaced. So, has the boat been completely refit over the last 20 years? If not ...


When you read comments from the old boat builders, you discover that they are more surprised than anyone that so many ancient fiberglass boats are still afloat.



Absolutely nothing on board was designed to last 50 years. Not the wiring, the chainplates, the keel bolts, the instruments, the electronics, the steering system. Anything.


That they survive at all is a testament to how many people buy sailboats and hardly ever use them.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

My quick wag is $100k so the answer is probably $175k

THIS^ is how it ALWAYS works out.

I AM that guy who takes the bargain boat and rebuilds the whole thing. Trust me, that boat is more expensive than one which doesn't need your time to rebuild for 2-3 years!

[phorvati]

The fact that you are asking likely tells me you are not going to pull the trigger. You have to be a bit crazy and you have to be committed and really want to do it. And numbers will only deter you. DIY helps but time and money are still there.

[David Mathis]

In my 76 years, I've spent a lot of time on boats and in boat yards, even operated commercially for awhile. Free advice:

Sometimes, even if a boat is free, it isn't a good deal.

Buying an older boat at half price or less that needs a new engine can be a good deal, maybe, but does it need only a new engine? How are the decks? Any soft spots, rot, or cracks? The upholstery condition: is it starting to crack, are a few corners repaired with duct tape, is the foam still solid or can you easily press your hand to the wood? Do you find corrosion on parts of the electrical system? Are the electronics up to date or are they obsolete and need replacing? Can you get by with the sails and rigging for another few years or will a few strong gusts make the boat look like the inside of a Salvation Army box?

Several times I've seen people buy "bargain" boats that just need a little work The new owners start with overwhelming enthusiasm and work hard every weekend for the entire summer. They give up their summers to work on the boat, buy many new parts, pay to have someone do the work that they can't do, pay the boatyard fees for the year, then admire their progress as the cooler temps come in. The second summer they work maybe a weekend a month, have less enthusiasm, and start complaining about the time and money spent. They made more progress but still have more time and money to invest before the boat is ready to float. By the third summer, the enthusiasm has waned and they realize that they have lost much boating over the past two years and want to be on the water this year but the boat won't be ready for at least one more year, maybe two. They also start to dislike the monthly yard fees. They start looking for a buyer who might want a great deal.

Unless you have a truly classic boat that you absolutely love along with a thick checkbook, my advice is to buy another boat in better condition that needs only wax, an oil change, soap, and fuel. You'll spend about the same and have much more leisure time on the water.

[Madehn]

So I did it on a 50 foot boat. Has taken about 8 years made more progress in last 2 after I retired than I did in the first 6 working 3/4 of weekends. It takes longer and costs more than you can imagine
1 set up a company and get business account with discounts at chandlers
2 have enough funds to buy bargains when you run across them ( my generator 10kw westerbeke cost me 1k at swap meet and another 1500 to totally rebuild.
3 live close to the boat so you can work for a few hours and come home.

Boat I bought was in decent shape structurally but did not have much in way of amenities. I have replaced or put in nearly every system. Stove heads2 storage headliners new ports rebuilt windlass new ground tackle new autopilots 1.4kw solar wind generator etc etc etc new 🆕 interior panels new sales and running rigging etc etc etc. bottom line I have 120k above initial purchase and a boat that looks almost factory new outfitted with first class equipment. It’s going to be our home and I wanted it comfortable and easy to use. In process I learned every system. If I had to do it over I might have bought a boat that was closer to ready but our budget wouldn’t stand for that. To replace the boat new would be upwards of 600k. I could sell mine for 160 maybe but that was not my objective I will more than make up the difference between spent and worth in rent savings etc over next ten years. That being said I didn’t get into it to make money or even break even. If you are not already a decent mechanic electrician problem solver with a decent amount of tools don’t even think about it. In answer to your question think the guess of 100k is a little low but in the ballpark

[michaeld]

I failed to add. For us, yes we would do it all over again.

[Fore and Aft]

For the people down under I have noticed a big drop in the amount of project boats I have been surveying. Hardstand fees, insurance, material costs and the hourly rate of tradies makes most project boats to costly. Not to mention most marina's don't really turn a blind eye anymore to boats being worked on so you get forced onto the hard stand. Then there's the design factor. A newer design usually gives you more bang for your buck.

Cheers

[Greatest Lakes]

Location does matter for doing some refit work. Good planning and preparation can reduce time on stands, but plan to be on the hard for twice as long as you'd hope to have the job completed. If you are in the north, where an annual haulout is normal, it's not as big of an issue. Most yards on the great lakes I've found will let you do pretty much anything so long as you clean up daily and do dust control. Most people will give you an estimate of roughly double whatever you expected for refit costs. This is mostly true, as any cut corners can quickly backfire and need to be done twice, and taking things apart is the fastest way to find additional work that you didn't know about. For instance. Engine refit, going from byzantine Era atomic 4 to yanmar or beta marine diesel. The engine mount stringers height are wrong, so new stringers. The exhaust hose has soft spots, and the muffler was vibrating against its mount and was about to fail. Oh, the engine controls don't fit in the same location as the original. Cables are on the wrong side, and the through hull valve for the cooling water is stiff and shows signs of leaking. For good measure, add a perko raw water strainer convert fuel system to diesel and add new filtration. Your engine refit now has taken 3 times as long, and has gone from 25k to 32k. On the plus side, you now know your engine installation waaaaay better than most.

If you are a masochist, it's great fun. I do worry what that says about me.

[skipperpete]

I know of a 48’ S&S carvel yawl that was bought in Langkawi and I believe rebuilt at PSS shipyard, Satun Thailand then returned to Australia and sailed in a Hobart race. I have no firm information about how much this restoration cost but it must have been in excess of $500,000, she was in very poor shape when I last saw her in Langkawi and I was elated that someone cared enough to restore “Windrose” to her former glory......and to the point where she could race competitively.

[mvweebles]

I just finished an extensive refit of a 1970 Garden designed trawler. Well into the 6-figures. I've owned the boat for 25 years and made a conscious decision to "buy the boat again."

When I get depressed about spending too much, I watch this video of the restoration of Marilee, a Herreschoff designed one-design from the 1930s for the NY Yacht Club. Restoration was rumored to be north of $3m USD. Owner raced for a couple seasons then sold.

https://youtu.be/oqaSWjtF8PI?feature=shared

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

Of course, the big question these days is insurance.

Not many companies seem willing to write policies on large boats that old these days. And you can't get into the vast majority of marinas and boatyards without insurance.

Absolutely nothing on board was designed to last 50 years. Not the wiring, the chainplates, the keel bolts, the instruments, the electronics, the steering system. Anything.


That they survive at all is a testament to how many people buy sailboats and hardly ever use them.

As far as insurance, that is why you don't put $100,000 into an older, larger boat you will have trouble insuring.

My $500,000 liability coverage which my marina requires is $19/month.

I have $14,000 in my boat over 12 years gradually, and it's 49 years old.

Just replaced the chain plates and found that one really needed to be replaced.

The encapsulated keel is still fine. No keel bolts to worry over.

Wiring is mostly original.

Tiller was replaced but haven't replaced anything on the rudder yet.

Still using the late 80's early 90's depth finder. Chart plotter is my old laptop. AIS comes in from the SH VHF.

My retirement 16' Sea Ark aluminum boat will cost $20,000 much of which is the 50 hp 4 stroke Yamaha and beautiful trailer, but since it's a 2023, it will be easy to insure.

Yearly slip fee for my boat at home will be $1700 which is bayside.

I will probably keep the Sea Ark in a slip on seaside for easy access to the Atlantic Ocean Inlets for fishing and the Barrier Islands for clamming and exploring.

[CarlF]

So Wet dreams - you asked the question. Is the answer of $100k-$200k in your budget? We could have an interesting discussion about the details - but it’s not worth anyone’s time if this is a non-starter for you (which I’m guessing it is)

[wet_dreams]

Originally Posted by CarlF

So Wet dreams - you asked the question. Is the answer of $100k-$200k in your budget? We could have an interesting discussion about the details - but it’s not worth anyone’s time if this is a non-starter for you (which I’m guessing it is)

I appreciate all of the feedback! Especially from those of you who have actually done it. I would approach a refit a bit differently than than some, with a focus on only the absolute essentials to cruise safely. We can do without electric heads, fancy electronic screens, a shiny paint job etc. As someone mentioned, we aren’t trying to wow people with our “yacht”. We are a young couple (30 y/o) and are looking at purchasing a platform that we can build on and keep for many years. We would like to start and family, and to be able to accommodate other family and friends comfortably while cruising. The reality is we will not be able to afford to purchase a similar sized vessel that has been fully refit anytime soon. Instead we figure we can pick away at projects over time while strategically keeping the vessel in a together enough state to use and enjoy between projects. We are capable of doing everything ourselves and we both work rotational jobs affording us a lot of free time. We figured around $120k before posting this forum, so we haven’t been scared off.

I also spoke with half a dozen insurance outfits this week that will cover older boats (in this case 1970) some even offering comprehensive coverage. We are both licensed captains and have owned older fiberglass boats and it sounds like our resume/ownership history is essential to obtaining this insurance.

This would be a big jump for us, moving up from an engineless 30ft, but what we don’t want is to buy something that will again be too small a few years from now when our family starts to grow. I have delivered about 40 sailing vessels between 36-65ft over the last 5 years, always with myself and 2 crew, based off of this experience we have concluded that 44-50ft is the range we would like to stay in.