Need someone extra knowledgeable on VAT cause I’ve got a doozy of a scenario

[Claudine]

I don’t even know where to begin.
Boat located in turkey but flagged in Australia.
US citizen and spouse who is dual US and France citizen buying boat in Turkey and seller will remove Australian register. US couple will eventually bring back boat to US, but would like to travel the med for as long as legally possible first… hoping a year.
Trying to figure out if VAT would need to be paid upon entering the EU since spouse has dual citizenship in France, but only plans to sail the med for a year hopping around and then returning to their actual home in the USA with their US flagged boat through the USCG.
Add to that, their 4 legged child that barks will be tagging along and unsure if French citizenship would make travel with dog any easier.
Told you it was a doozy. My brain has melted.

[AndyEss]

Anonymous posters on the internet are the best source of complex business, tax, and customs duty solutions for people spending sums in the 6 to 7 figure range on recreational toys.

[more]

Originally Posted by Claudine

I don’t even know where to begin.
Boat located in turkey but flagged in Australia.
US citizen and spouse who is dual US and France citizen buying boat in Turkey and seller will remove Australian register. US couple will eventually bring back boat to US, but would like to travel the med for as long as legally possible first… hoping a year.
Trying to figure out if VAT would need to be paid upon entering the EU since spouse has dual citizenship in France, but only plans to sail the med for a year hopping around and then returning to their actual home in the USA with their US flagged boat through the USCG.
Add to that, their 4 legged child that barks will be tagging along and unsure if French citizenship would make travel with dog any easier.
Told you it was a doozy. My brain has melted.

you confusing us. spouse , cousin , neighbor who care
in this family

person A is citizen USA
person B is citizen usa and france

register boat on person A
combo

person A is citizen USA and france
person B is citizen USA and france

buy boat with VAT paid in EU,dont buy this Australian boat if you want quite sleep
when you return to usa sale boat with VAT paid in EU and buy boat in USA.

Also i buying new boat for personal use. and have 2 options
open company and return VAT. opening company under 100€ but annually cost 3-5000€ and be in fear when see police,custom,marina staff. good road to lose boat like 100-other people. becouse this is VAT fraud. only boat for comercial use can reclaim VAT, other is personal use. or register boat in Panama, but you have restriction how use boat in EU. this guy with superyacht can evade this ,you hard.
read this and similar website.

https://www.keystonelaw.com/keynotes...ers-and-owners

Tax is rarely straightforward and VAT in relation to yachts is no different. It is very rare that there is a simple yes or no answer. You should always obtain evidence of the VAT position before purchasing a boat.

[more]

PS.
with this your combo/vat
don't go in Greece and Croatia. you lose boat 99%

but also i have some problem in Portugal, this country is very strict with law and tax, fee, your money. and work force in this state office is (imagine worst world)

[boatman61]

Flag the boat US, as I understand it you are a US citizen, wife is dual.. easy peasey..
Register boat in your name and you have 18mths VAT free before it becomes an issue once you enter EU waters.
As for the dog, make sure it has all the proper shots and rabies pet passport in advance.

[more]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Flag the boat US, as I understand it you are a US citizen, wife is dual.. easy peasey..
Register boat in your name and you have 18mths VAT free before it becomes an issue once you enter EU waters.

wrong 18mths VAT free is for boat,but he have 90 days stay. if he leave EU and wife stay on boat its automatic tax fraud, because she use his right stay over 90 days (France citizen)

[Freeeeedom]

I read somewhere that an EU citizen in EU waters owning a boat without VAT paid must have a proof of residence outside the EU. But:


1. I'm just a random dude on the Internet
2. Even if that's what the written law says, the practice might differ.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by more

wrong 18mths VAT free is for boat,but he have 90 days stay. if he leave EU and wife stay on boat its automatic tax fraud, because she use his right stay over 90 days (France citizen)

I made no mention of people as they are not VAT'able.. I referred to the boats status.
Also I would imagine they would come and go together under the 90/180 day people rule.. unlikely she would choose to spend 3mths alone on a boat in say Italy.
Stop trying to muddy the waters, he is asking about boat and dog.

[Claudine]

Originally Posted by AndyEss

Anonymous posters on the internet are the best source of complex business, tax, and customs duty solutions for people spending sums in the 6 to 7 figure range on recreational toys.

Well aren’t you just a ray of sunshine. One should always make all half million dollar decisions based solely on internet communications with strangers. Worst that can happen is the loss of the toy and then you just buy another one.

[more]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I made no mention of people as they are not VAT'able.. I referred to the boats status.
Also I would imagine they would come and go together under the 90/180 day people rule.. unlikely she would choose to spend 3mths alone on a boat in say Italy.
Stop trying to muddy the waters, he is asking about boat and dog.

boats status is changed if she France citizen stay solo on boat,and guardia di finaza catch she on boat in marina.

if she show usa passport have 90 days stay in 180, but if she pull france pasport and stay longer 90-days solo on boat change VAT status of boat.
The yacht is registered outside the UCT.

The yacht is registered in the name of an owner established outside the UCT.

The yacht is used by a person established outside the UCT.

[more]

Non-EU private yachts owned by a non-EU company are allowed in to France. They are then considered to be in temporary admission.



Non-EU private yachts owned by a non-EU company with a non-EU resident ultimate beneficial owner (UBO) can benefit from the temporary admission for private use, which means they will not pay any VAT on the hull for a period of 18 months.

Note that it must be a personal use which means only the owner, his family or close friends can use the boat. In principle, these people should all be non-EU residents. It is, though, tolerated that an EU resident uses the boat as long as the UBO is, at the same time, in the union customs territory.

No charter is admitted under the temporary admission.

[boat driver]

Register boat in the US. Taxes are not paid till the boat actually gets to the US . As long as the home port is a residence legal- the vessel can be a transit for the duration of the visa applications. if cruising and required, sail out of the EU long enough to reestablish scale to 0.
The vessels seized are generally playing games- and therefore get snagged.
BTW, with the world in such disarray, the US flag gets you the US horsepower for safety.
No better feeling than the grey ships coming over the horizon when the **** hits the fan.

[Paul Annapolis]

Touchee! As in too shay--not touchy. I agree 100% with the response from AndyEss and these types of questions require serious answers from the authorities involved or from an expert. The authorities make the decisions and control the system. Go to them and as for the wide variety of often contradictory answers and advice...well some might be valid and some not. I just can imagine a boatowner in serious trouble in a foreign country saying to a customs official that "Well, joe so and so on the internet said I did not have to pay anything......" And the customs official will say "ahh, si, si si. we know Joe so and so as he has been giving bad advice to many poor sailors for years, but his advice is god for our revenue, so we look the other way....and now, how will you pay the $50,000 Euros?..and please give Joe our warm regards"

[more]

Originally Posted by Paul Annapolis

Touchee! And the customs official will say "ahh, si, si si. we know Joe so and so as he has been giving bad advice to many poor sailors for years, but his advice is god for our revenue, so we look the other way....and now, how will you pay the $50,000 Euros?..and please give Joe our warm regards"

Wrong,customs official don't say nothing. absolute nothing except follow police with boat to marina. in marina take your luggage, leave document and keys on reception and give your 1 paper boat is sized, hire lawyer or customs agent. if you complain on calculation customs make see you for couple year on court, clock in marina is calculate on transient slip (100-200+€ day) every week you must pay. and after 2-3 year i coming and buy your boat for 30-50% of market valid + tax usually all this money is taken marina for slip.

and you must be like church mouse, totally quite and cool. if you have high tone, easy you can spent 1-30 day in jail.if you gentile touch officer 1/2-8 year prison

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by more

boats status is changed if she France citizen stay solo on boat,and guardia di finaza catch she on boat in marina.

if she show usa passport have 90 days stay in 180, but if she pull france pasport and stay longer 90-days solo on boat change VAT status of boat.
The yacht is registered outside the UCT.

The yacht is registered in the name of an owner established outside the UCT.

The yacht is used by a person established outside the UCT.

So an American or Brit in the EU cannot get an EU citizen to boatsit his US registered boat for 1 to 3 months without it becoming liable for VAT is what you are saying.
As far as I see it if your name is not on the registration papers one's relationship status to the registered owner does not enter the equation.