Buying a boat in Florida

[smj]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

This is an interesting situation. The op is a resident of Florida and buying a boat in florida, and it seems that Florida wants to collect taxes. But consider the following points:

* If I as a resident of Maryland buy a boat in Maryland and immediately, permanently, move it to Florida, Florida will want to collect sales tax (with credit for any Maryland taxes paid)

* If OP as a resident of Florida buys a boat in Florida and immediately moves the boat to Maryland, Maryland will want to collect sales tax, with credit for any Florida tax paid.

* But if I, as a resident of Maryland, were to buy a boat in Florida, and immediately become a nomadic cruiser, I would pay no sales tax to anyone. And not owe them, either.

* If the OP as a resident of Florida where to buy a boat in any other state, and immediately begin a nomadic cruising life (as stated), he would pay no sales tax to anyone.

I don't see the OP as really trying to evade taxes with legal and ethical issues. I rather see him as frustrated for paying taxes in a very specific set of circumstances. If he found the exact same boat in Georgia, there would be no taxes. And he wouldn't be accused of tax evasion, he truly would not be liable for taxes. There is nothing immoral about not paying taxes you don't owe.

I wonder if his broker could find a collaborating broker in Georgia. Move the boat to Georgia, execute the transaction in Georgia, owe no taxes to anybody, and go cruising?

All of this comes down as a house of cards if he misrepresented in the original post, and is not living a nomadic lifestyle. Trigger the date limits in Florida, and the situation changes.

If the OP is a resident of Florida he will owe Florida taxes whenever he decides to register it in Florida, no matter the circumstances or where he buys it.

[Shanachie]

To me, evading taxes is an exercise in silliness.

If you can't afford to pay them, you really shouldn't be owning a boat. They are just one of a long parade of outrageous expenses you get socked with to indulge in your passion.


It's also a recipe for disaster. If you register a boat in a state and don't keep it there, how are you going to get and keep insurance? They won't pay if they figure out you lied to them about your home port.


In this computer age, governments also have become masters of manipulating various databases to catch tax cheats. Sooner or later, Florida will figure it out and come after you.

[Be Free]

Originally Posted by Cormorant

Yeah — antique is the way to go! Anything over 30 years, which now means 1993 or older. Anything from the 1980s or 90s seems positively modern to me. Though you do need to have the original engine in it. (Do they really check that?)

It does not have to have the original engine. It needs to be the original type engine.



I can't speak from experience whether they check but I suspect they require an affidavit when you register and a hefty fine if you are found to have not been truthful.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

It's also a recipe for disaster. If you register a boat in a state and don't keep it there, how are you going to get and keep insurance? They won't pay if they figure out you lied to them about your home port.

Curious, but what would the OP list as a home port? Whatever he puts, he may never go there again (or at all!). He's a live aboard nomad, with no permanent home port.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by smj

If the OP is a resident of Florida he will owe Florida taxes whenever he decides to register it in Florida, no matter the circumstances or where he buys it.

And if he never keeps it in FL for the required time (90 days per year?), that may never occur!

[letsgetsailing3]

It's sales tax.

If you buy a boat in Florida, you owe it in Florida.

They have a program that allows you to pay the tax out of state where you're going to register it if you're a NON-RESIDENT.

That doesn't apply to the OP, as they're already residents of Florida, and have been long enough to get licenses and register to vote.

Even Florida will figure that out.

[CaptJPMcGuire]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

You might be able to do a lot of things in the US and get away with it, but tax evasion is one of those things that has sunk a lot of people.
This "sales tax" thread has been taken up here on this CF before, and the consensus then, as is now, is to pay the sales tax and be done with it.

I'm betting any tax attorney, accountant, or other expert in the field will advise you the same.

We are ut of real boating--tow it with a truck. It lives on a trailer behind the camper. Issue with tax on boats before --simple -=-we bought it in FL and took it home to RI. Documented it and RI still charges a maritime conservation fee to keep the water clean --and get tax?! No matter what the state calls it money going from me to them is taxing me!
Many folk do similar things with the big Rig Campers in Montana to avoin personal property tax and sales tax on Rigs.
Even more fun--Register your Big Rig in one state --carry a firearm in your HOME (rig) stop for the night in NJ and be in Rikers Island NY for years on a GUN violation. Umm 82K new IRS guys --were screwed --looking for an apartment on second floor of vacant lot in Ukraine-- I think is my next best bet.

[Cynara]

If you keep your boat in fla for 90 days you pay property taxes. Sales tax is different

[Noahr]

In California we sales tax and also pay property tax on our boats. No free lunch!

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

To me, evading taxes is an exercise in silliness.

If you can't afford to pay them, you really shouldn't be owning a boat. They are just one of a long parade of outrageous expenses you get socked with to indulge in your passion.


It's also a recipe for disaster. If you register a boat in a state and don't keep it there, how are you going to get and keep insurance? They won't pay if they figure out you lied to them about your home port.


In this computer age, governments also have become masters of manipulating various databases to catch tax cheats. Sooner or later, Florida will figure it out and come after you.

I think you misunderstand. Nobody is advocating cheating or lying to anyone, but as many of us have pointed out, there often are circumstances that allow you to legally owe no sales tax, but you have to make sure you read the law(s) of each state that’s involved carefully. In the case of my current boat, I saved about $12,000 that was much better spent on required maintenance items.

[mvweebles]

OP wants to minimize tax exposure. Nothing wrong with that. The exam question was simply whether he should hire a skilled professional accountant-type to advise, or is it straightforward enough that he can do it on his own?

Given his connections to Florida, hiring a knowledgeable advisor would be money well spent. On the face of it, Florida taxing authority would have a credible claim. An advisor would know how to navigate the requirements and process. Without expert guidance, OP could inadvertently trigger a taxation tripwire such as misinterpreting residency versus domicile.

[Cormorant]

Originally Posted by smj

If your not a Florida resident and haven’t used your boat in Florida for the first 6 months of ownership then you owe no Fl taxes if you eventually register there, taxes paid in another state or not.

Thanks for that clarification! I had been under the mistaken impression that Florida would try to collect sales tax too, if your out-of-state boat went there to live for six months. If it's just a matter of registering, that's easy.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

OP wants to minimize tax exposure. Nothing wrong with that. The exam question was simply whether he should hire a skilled professional accountant-type to advise, or is it straightforward enough that he can do it on his own?

Given his connections to Florida, hiring a knowledgeable advisor would be money well spent. On the face of it, Florida taxing authority would have a credible claim. An advisor would know how to navigate the requirements and process. Without expert guidance, OP could inadvertently trigger a taxation tripwire such as misinterpreting residency versus domicile.

You mean like paying their sales taxes that are due?

They're Florida residents buying a boat in Florida. No way to sugar coat that other than tax evasion. Pay the tax.

There is no easier way to get caught than to use Florida as your residence for some kinds of taxes (like income), and attempting to evade it for other taxes (like sales).

Yes, some people evade taxes, and some may get away with it, but they're always looking over their shoulder.



.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

You mean like paying their sales taxes that are due?

They're Florida residents buying a boat in Florida. No way to sugar coat that other than tax evasion. Pay the tax.

There is no easier way to get caught than to use Florida as your residence for some kinds of taxes (like income), and attempting to evade it for other taxes (like sales).

Yes, some people evade taxes, and some may get away with it, but they're always looking over their shoulder.

Tax evasion? Yikes- that's harsh!!

That said, when I first read the OP's original post, I had a negative reaction too - "Here's a guy who wants his cake and eat it too - want's to be a Florida resident when it comes to income tax status, wants to be an out-of-stater when it comes time for sales tax." But I don't think that's the story here. If you re-read his post and think about it, all he wants to do is (1) understand what his minimum tax liability is; and (2) how to only pay that amount - do it himself or hire someone. Given the circumstances, my personal guidance is to find an advisor.

What's not disputed in this thread is there are rules that allow a buyer to legally avoid Florida sales' tax. What's murky and speculative is exactly what these rules are but simplfied version sounds like if you buy in Florida and immediately move the boat out-of-state, sales tax is exempt. Being a Florida resident may make it difficult to prove, but does that mean you are automatically liable? Is there a rule that says "if you're a Florida resident you automatically owe sales tax no matter what." A knowledgable tax advisor would know and would be very helpful navigating the wrath of the skepticism of Florida's taxation authorities.

I see nothing wrong with that. If I were the OP, I'd be miffed that folks called me a tax evader.
.

[smj]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

When I first read the OP's original post, I had a similar reaction "Here's a guy who wants his cake and eat it too - want's to be a Florida resident when it comes to income tax status, wants to be an out-of-stater when it comes time for sales tax." But I don't think that's the story here.

What's not disputed in this thread is there are rules that allow a buyer to legally avoid Florida sales' tax. What's murky and speculative is exactly what these rules are. Sure, the rules include asset location, tax jurisdiction, if taxes were paid elsewhere, duration of time the asset remains within the jurisdiction, etc. But is there a rule that if you're a Florida Resident automatically mean you pay sales' tax even if you follow the same rules that would exempt an out-of-state buyer? My guess is being a Florida resident makes it difficult to claim/prove non-taxable status in Florida, but is it impossible? Likely possible but expect an audit and skepticism. A knowledgable tax advisor would know.

OPs question was whether he can go it alone or needs the help of an advisor. That was it. I think jumping to conclusion the OP was a tax evader is harsh. He clearly stated he was either file the relevant paperwork himself or have an advisor assist. There is nothing untoward about that.

I don’t find anything murky or speculative about the rules, pretty much straight forward?

https://www.floridasalestax.com/docu...Purchasers.pdf
The op states they receive their mail in Fl and have Fl drivers licenses and Fl registered voters? Pretty much makes them Fl residents?
[Specific Exemptions Boats Sold to Nonresidents
You may purchase a boat tax-exempt if the sale is through a registered boat dealer or yacht broker to a nonresident who will remove the boat from Florida.]
Pretty much cuts them out of being tax free if purchasing a boat in Fl?