Buying a boat in Florida

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by GinoDelG

Hello all,
I'm about to buy a new catamaran from a broker in Florida. I want to avoid Florida sales tax by moving it out of the state within 90 days. My wife and I live aboard our current boat and move up and down the east coast each year, generally spending winters in the Bahamas or Caribbean. We use the SBI mail forwarding service and have Florida voter registration and drivers licenses but do not have a residence in Florida. Should I try to do the paperwork myself or would it be best to hire an expert to do it for me?

FYI.

One is either a resident of Florida or one is not.

You state that you have Florida driver's license and voter registration. Both of those require that you be a resident of Florida.

Guidance below:


VOTER RESIDENCY IN FLORIDA

https://soe.dos.state.fl.us/pdf/DE%20Guide%200003-%20Voter%20Residency%20Updated%2006-2019%20Final.pdf

DE Reference Guide 0003 (Updated 06-2019; supersedes all prior versions)
These guidelines are for reference only. They are not to be construed as legal advice or representation. For any particular set of facts or circumstances, refer to the applicable state, federal law, and case law, and/or consult a private attorney before drawing any legal conclusions or relying upon this information.

1. Legal residence - Permanent.
Legal residency is not defined in law. However, over the years, the courts and the Florida Department of State/Division of Elections’ have construed legal residency to be where a person mentally intends to make his or her permanent residence for purposes of registration.
Additional evidence of such intent can come from items or activities such as obtaining a Florida driver’s license and listed residential address,
paying tax receipts, paying bills for residency (light, water, garbage service) and receiving mail at a physical address, claiming the property as homestead, declaring the county as domicile, and doing other activities indicative or normally associated with home life. Therefore, legal residence is a convergence of intent and fact.

Once residency is established for voting purposes, it is presumptively valid or current until evidence shows otherwise.
See Op. Atty Gen. Fla. 055-216 (August 26, 1955). A business address is not a satisfactory legal residential address. However, although not the rule, if the person is able to prove residence there despite the zoning ordinance, a fact-finding body could determine that the business address is the person’s legal residential address.

2. Legal residence - Temporarily Out-of-County.
A person who has no permanent address in the county but intends to remain a resident of Florida and the county in which he or she is registered must be re-assigned to the Supervisor of Elections’ main office address and corresponding precinct. (Section 101.045, Fla. Stat.) The person has to have had some prior physical presence and residence in the county. Such persons though cannot vote in the municipal elections.

3. Legal residence - Mobile.

For a person with a nontraditional abode (e.g., boat, motor home, etc.) who has or had physical presence in the county and intends for the county to be his or her permanent residence, acceptable addresses for voter registration purposes could include: 1) the place where messages are regularly received, 2) the general delivery address at a specific post office, or 3) the address for the campground or docking site (if mail is received there).

Please note Supervisors of Elections have a duty per s. 98.045, F.S., to determine whether a person is eligible or not. If it appears that the address is not a residential address or cannot be determined to be a residential address, a Supervisor may ask the applicant for more information to determine if the applicant is a legal resident of the county. For example, if the applicant provides an address of a mail forwarding company as his or her residential address, the Supervisor may ask the applicant what other meaningful contacts exist to support the applicant’s prior or present physical presence in the county and intent to be a permanent residence of the county. See DE 18-09. For those mobile applicants who are legal residents of the county but who do not maintain a permanent presence in the county, such persons are temporarily residing out-of-county and should be processed per Section 101.045, Fla. Stat.




Florida Residency Requirements for income tax and asset protection law.

By Jon Alper https://www.alperlaw.com/florida-ass...20More%20items


Florida residency can be claimed only by someone who primarily lives in Florida. Some people want to become Florida residents to escape state income tax and inheritance tax. Other people want to become Florida residents to take advantage of its asset protection laws.

The term “Florida resident” has different meanings under different parts of Florida law. For state income tax purposes, establishing residency in Florida requires physical presence in Florida most of the year. For asset protection, there is no minimum occupancy requirement to be a Florida resident.

Instead, Florida residency for asset protection requires one to demonstrate an intent to maintain their primary residence in Florida. Florida courts consider various factors evidencing an intent to live in Florida.

Steps to Becoming a Florida Resident
Here are the 10 most important steps to establishing Florida residency:

Record a Declaration of Domicile in the county in which you live and be taxed and served for duties such as jury participation.
Maintain a physical mailing address, not a P.O. Box. [COLOR="Red"]SBI is not a physical mailing address, it just a mail receiving and forwarding service provider./COLOR]
Register to vote in Florida.
Obtain a Florida driver’s license.
If owning a home in Florida, pay applicable property taxes.
Use a Florida address on all legal paperwork, including tax returns.
Obtain Florida tags on all vehicles.
Change one's passport address to Florida.
Physically move some valuable household items, such as artwork or jewelry, to your Florida home.
File for the homestead tax exemption if you own a Florida home.

Keep in mind that a person moving to Florida does not need to satisfy every element on the checklist in order to fully establish domicile. Some items are more important than others.




Department of motor vehicles / driver's licenses.


New Resident – Welcome to Florida!

https://www.flhsmv.gov/new-resident/

You may be considered a resident of Florida when you:

Have started employment or engaged in a trade, profession, or occupation in this state.
Have enrolled your children in the public schools of this state.
Have registered to vote in this state.
Have filed for homestead tax exemption on property in this state.
Have lived in this state for a period of more than six consecutive months.
As a new Florida resident, you must obtain a valid Florida driver license within 30 days of establishing residency to drive on Florida roads. In addition, you must obtain insurance from a Florida insurance agent that is licensed to sell insurance in Florida in order to title and register your vehicle(s), vessel(s), and mobile home(s) within 10 days of establishing residency.



Driver’s License/ID Cards
Applications for driver’s licenses/ID cards must be made in person at any local office offering driver licenses services. When applying for a driver license, you will be given a vision test, however you may be eligible to receive a license without taking a written or road test.


Required Documentation
For a list of the required documentation you will need to obtain a Florida driver license or Florida ID card, please click on your applicable residency status below:

Specifically for US citizens:

U.S. citizens renewing, replacing, or applying for a new driver license or ID card in-person must submit the following documents before a REAL-ID compliant driver license or ID card can be issued. Please note that the name assigned to the Social Security Number (SSN) must match the name that will appear on the Florida driver license or ID card. Customers who have recently changed their name should update their records with the Social Security Administration, before applying for a driver license or ID card.

1. Primary Identification

An original of one of the following documents with complete name:

U.S. birth certificate, including some U.S. territories and District of Columbia (birth certificates from Puerto Rico must have an issue date after July 1, 2010); or
Valid U.S. passport or passport card with residency listed; or
Consular Report of Birth Abroad; or
Certificate of Naturalization, form N-550 or form N-570; or
Certificate of Citizenship, form N-560 or form N-561.
NOTES

Only a birth certificate issued by a county health department or the CDC Bureau of Vital Statistics will be accepted. Hospital birth certificates are not considered a certified document and will not be accepted.
Please come prepared to present one of the above listed identification documents as proof of citizenship or legal presence.
When applicable, marriage certificates, court orders or divorce decrees must be provided to link the name on the primary identification to the name on the driver license or ID card.
If a valid U.S. passport has the customer’s current name, they are not required to present additional name change documents.

2. Proof of Social Security

An original of one of the following documents with complete name and complete SSN:

Social Security card (with the customer’s current name);
W-2 form (not handwritten); or
Pay check/stub; or
SSA-1099; or
Any 1099 (not handwritten).
Customers without an SSN can find assistance on our What To Bring FAQ page.

3. Proof of Residential Address

Customers may not use their current driver license or ID card as proof of residential address.

Customers must submit two different documents with their Florida residential address (printouts or faxes of these documents are acceptable). We will no longer accept out-of-state or U.S. territory addresses for applicants obtaining a Florida Class E license or identification card.

Residential address documents include, but are not limited to:

Deed, mortgage, monthly mortgage statement, mortgage payment booklet or residential rental/lease agreement; or
Florida voter registration card; or
Florida vehicle registration or title (print a duplicate registration at MyDMV Portal); or
Utility bill; or
A utility hook up or work order dated within 60 days prior to the application; or
Automobile payment booklet; or
Selective service card; or
Medical or health card with address listed; or
Current homeowner insurance policy or bill; or
Current automobile insurance policy or bill; or
Educational institution transcript forms for the current school year; or
Unexpired professional license issued by a government agency in the U.S.; or
W-2 form or 1099 form; or
Form DS2019, Certificate of Eligibility for Exchange Visitor (J-1) status; or
A letter from a homeless shelter, transitional service provider or a half-way house verifying they receive mail for the customer. The letter must be accompanied by a Certification of Address form; or
Mail from financial institutions including checking, savings, or investment account statements; or
Mail from federal, state, county, or city government agencies; or
FDLE registration form completed by local sheriff’s department.


Customers who do not have any of the above documents in their name may provide two proofs of residential address from a parent, step-parent, legal guardian or other person with whom they reside and a Certification of Address form.

In accordance with the REAL ID Act, customers are not required to present these documents for subsequent renewals unless their information changes (e.g., name, address). However, if the customer is applying for a Commercial Learner’s Permit (CLP) or Commercial Driver License (CDL), they must present proof of residence documents as outlined below.




Who Can Register to Vote
To register to vote in Florida, you must:

Be a Citizen of the United States of America (A lawful permanent resident, commonly referred to as a "green card holder," does not have the right to register or vote in Florida);
To be eligible to register to vote you must:
Be a citizen of the United States of America;
Be a legal resident of Florida;
Be a legal resident of the county in which you seek to be registered;
Be at least 16 years old to preregister or at least 18 years old to register and vote;
Not be a person who has been adjudicated mentally incapacitated with respect to voting in Florida or any other state without having the right to vote restored; and,
Not be a person convicted of a felony without having your right to vote restored.



It is a 3rd degree felony to submit false information. Maximum penalties are $5,000 and/or 5 years in prison.

For additional information, please see question 15 in our Voter Registration FAQ


I have just moved to Florida from another state. Is there anything I need to do about my prior voter registration?
If you intend to vote in Florida, you must first register to vote here. Please visit our Voter Registration page for more information. Then contact the election office in your former state to cancel your prior voter registration.

[S/V Illusion]

Don’t think this guy is coming back

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

You might be able to do a lot of things in the US and get away with it, but tax evasion is one of those things that has sunk a lot of people.
This "sales tax" thread has been taken up here on this CF before, and the consensus then, as is now, is to pay the sales tax and be done with it.

I'm betting any tax attorney, accountant, or other expert in the field will advise you the same.

I disagree with that and I don’t think it’s the general consensus either. I talked to a boat owning accountant who advised me. But you do have to read the applicable laws carefully and make sure you comply with them. About 25 years ago I bought a boat “at sea” that had been in the Bahamas for the past year and I used the listing broker in Florida. It was July and the boat needed to be hauled out and a few other things done to it so I immediately sailed it to Florida and worked on it for about 6 weeks before sailing it to Marsh Harbor for the winter. I was a Florida resident at that time but documented it in Maine because I also had an apartment there and eventually planned to take it there. Maine law reads that if you use a boat in Maine waters for more than 30 days in your first year of ownership you owe a 6% sales or use tax so I made sure I didn’t bring my boat into Maine for at least 11 months and one day, and obtained a receipt for my mooring rental from the Gloucester, Mass harbormaster to prove it. About 2 years later the state of Maine did try to collect that tax but I sent them copies of paperwork indicating the sale date and receipts for dockage in the Bahamas and mooring rentals at various places and that was the last I heard of it.

Then, I bought my current boat on Thanksgiving week in Annapolis and immediately sailed it to Delaware to be hauled out for the winter and have the engine removed and remanufactured. In the spring, making sure the 6 months that Massachusetts requires had elapsed, I sailed to Salem and rented a mooring for the season, and stored it locally there for the winter, then sailing it to Maine 19 months after I bought it. No tax owed and all perfectly legal with no worries or looking over my shoulder.

So, if you study the laws of the states involved you sometimes can avoid the tax legally. In my case, the first time it worked out great because I enjoyed having it in Marsh Harbor for the winter, but the second time was probably more trouble than it was worth because the work I had done at Delaware City Marina was subpar and a ripoff, and I didn’t really enjoy sailing out of Salem as much as I thought I would so it would have been simpler to have just brought the boat right to Maine a year earlier and had the needed engine work done here at a boatyard I know is reputable.

[Shay]

We bought our boat in FL. using a broker. It is important that the seller is using a broker. We were North Carolina residents at the time. NC doesn't have a sales tax on used boats. We moved the boat to NC and stayed out of Florida for 7 months ( I think 6 months is all that is required ) FL tax authority required us to send them a receipt that we were in a marina in NC. Then we returned to Florida and became FL residents using Saint Brendan's Isle mail forwarding service for our residence. Never paid a sales tax. We did pay FL use tax that is small.

[timb7734]

I did this about 2008 when the sales tax was much greater.

I was an out of state resident.
I documented the vessel.
I registered her in Delaware, so no sales tax there either.
I took her to the Bahamas within the prescribed time.
Purchased fuel in Abaco and sent fuel bill and dock receipt to the state of FL and they responded with a letter saying I did not owe them sales tax.

I never was questioned after that. I believe that if you register in Delaware you may get past the residency question.

My last boat I just paid the tax as it was much lower.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

(redacted)
The broker isn’t obligated to collect tax payments nor is he an agent of the Tax Collectors Office in Florida.

From my purchase, I seem to recall that the dealer had a form that can avoid payment of Florida sales tax if you pay the sales tax where you register the boat.

[skipgundlach]

I jumped out and skipped all the speculation. My apologies if someone has already bailed this water.

Buy a boat, motor home or airplane in FL. Use it with the 90 day cruising permit equivalent.

Leave the state. Don't come back for at least 6 months. No FL sales tax.

Best, go cruising. Don't stop anywhere long enough for the tax folks to be interested in you. No sales tax.

BTDT and got the tee shirt.

You say you want to work on the boat first? No problem. Go to a Registered Repair Facility (taxman abbreviates RRF). They formally take care, custody, and control (Taxman abbreviates CCC) of the vessel. You have 20 days after they finish (well, when you assume CCC) to get outta dodge. Same ending for us after nearly 3 years ashore at a RRF, with CCC of Flying Pig.

Your tax issues in another state are a different matter, on which I'm not informed. But my formal address was in GA, in which state I also didn't pay any sales taxes on what became our home afloat for 15 years. Nor any other state or country, FWIW.

This IS the cruisers forum. Get out there and cruise

[slipaway]

One can see after reading these posts that the questions of residence, domicile and taxation can get pretty complex. In fact, in many states there are different definitions for different purposes: sales tax, voting, in-state tuition, boats, cars, etc. etc. You really have to drill into what you are looking to accomplish unless there is a very straightforward situation. Once one establishes legal and financial connections in a state- driver's license, registrations, voting, etc. it can be difficult to argue they are not a "tax" resident of that state. But bottom line, if you are trying to legally avoid a tax, best to consult with a tax attorney or accountant familiar with the laws of the state (or states) you are dealing with.

Another point. Someone mentioned that even if a recreational vessel is US documented it still will need to be "registered" with a state. That too, is very state specific. Some states will require the registration if a vessel is principally used in that state's waters, others won't (VA for example does not require state registration of US documented vessels- no fee, no sticker, etc.; MD on the other hand does). Same for state sales taxes on used vessels, documented vessels, etc. State specific so need to carefully review the state laws for all these things if you are trying to claim any exemptions.

[Cormorant]

I'm considering similar questions.... Though I'm not a Florida resident. One thing is if you are discovered spending more than 90 days in Florida waters, they'll seek sales tax retroactively from you, unless you've paid sales tax elsewhere. So if I register and pay tax in my home state of NY (8.25%) I would only have to register in Florida to spend long winters there — but not pay sales tax. If I register in Rhode Island (0% tax) and then Florida sees me spend half a year there, I would owe them the 6%. So . . . I've considered the Rhode Island route but wonder if I might just wind up paying Florida someday anyway...

[gs41escapade]

Last year we bought a new boat in Florida, departed within the 90 day window and did the paperwork ourselves. It wasn't too hard. Paid the tax in our home state of Maryland.

That's not what the OP is actually trying to do, of course, but just documenting that you paid the tax in another state and filing within the timeline was not difficult.

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by Cormorant

I'm considering similar questions.... Though I'm not a Florida resident. One thing is if you are discovered spending more than 90 days in Florida waters, they'll seek sales tax retroactively from you, unless you've paid sales tax elsewhere. So if I register and pay tax in my home state of NY (8.25%) I would only have to register in Florida to spend long winters there — but not pay sales tax. If I register in Rhode Island (0% tax) and then Florida sees me spend half a year there, I would owe them the 6%. So . . . I've considered the Rhode Island route but wonder if I might just wind up paying Florida someday anyway...

If you come BACK they'll want you to register if you stay longer than 90 days at a stretch (any FL water).

Not taxed, just registered. As an antique, we paid $5/year after having been ticketed (many years without registering, mistakenly thinking that our USCG registration covered it)...

[Cormorant]

Originally Posted by skipgundlach

If you come BACK they'll want you to register if you stay longer than 90 days at a stretch (any FL water).



Not taxed, just registered. As an antique, we paid $5/year after having been ticketed (many years without registering, mistakenly thinking that our USCG registration covered it...

Yeah — antique is the way to go! Anything over 30 years, which now means 1993 or older. Anything from the 1980s or 90s seems positively modern to me. Though you do need to have the original engine in it. (Do they really check that?)

[smj]

Originally Posted by Cormorant

I'm considering similar questions.... Though I'm not a Florida resident. One thing is if you are discovered spending more than 90 days in Florida waters, they'll seek sales tax retroactively from you, unless you've paid sales tax elsewhere. So if I register and pay tax in my home state of NY (8.25%) I would only have to register in Florida to spend long winters there — but not pay sales tax. If I register in Rhode Island (0% tax) and then Florida sees me spend half a year there, I would owe them the 6%. So . . . I've considered the Rhode Island route but wonder if I might just wind up paying Florida someday anyway...

If your not a Florida resident and haven’t used your boat in Florida for the first 6 months of ownership then you owe no Fl taxes if you eventually register there, taxes paid in another state or not.

[sailingharry]

This is an interesting situation. The op is a resident of Florida and buying a boat in florida, and it seems that Florida wants to collect taxes. But consider the following points:

* If I as a resident of Maryland buy a boat in Maryland and immediately, permanently, move it to Florida, Florida will want to collect sales tax (with credit for any Maryland taxes paid)

* If OP as a resident of Florida buys a boat in Florida and immediately moves the boat to Maryland, Maryland will want to collect sales tax, with credit for any Florida tax paid.

* But if I, as a resident of Maryland, were to buy a boat in Florida, and immediately become a nomadic cruiser, I would pay no sales tax to anyone. And not owe them, either.

* If the OP as a resident of Florida where to buy a boat in any other state, and immediately begin a nomadic cruising life (as stated), he would pay no sales tax to anyone.

I don't see the OP as really trying to evade taxes with legal and ethical issues. I rather see him as frustrated for paying taxes in a very specific set of circumstances. If he found the exact same boat in Georgia, there would be no taxes. And he wouldn't be accused of tax evasion, he truly would not be liable for taxes. There is nothing immoral about not paying taxes you don't owe.

I wonder if his broker could find a collaborating broker in Georgia. Move the boat to Georgia, execute the transaction in Georgia, owe no taxes to anybody, and go cruising?

All of this comes down as a house of cards if he misrepresented in the original post, and is not living a nomadic lifestyle. Trigger the date limits in Florida, and the situation changes.

[gs41escapade]

We actually explored the "collaborating dealer" concept. It's a no-go. Both the boat manufacturers and the states put a lot of scrutiny on the dealers for just that reason. The states so as not to miss out on taxes, the manufacturers ostensibly to protect the brokers, but I think really to not get in trouble with the states.