What's Your Opinion? Firearms or Not?

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

To sum up my conclusions drawn from this thread:

If I see a US flagged boat in an anchorage I will anchor as far away from it as possible. Preferably out of range of gunfire.

If I see a US flagged boat dragging it's anchor at night I will mind my own business. I have no intention of getting shot while trying to save someone from their own poor anchoring technique.

Move very slowly, don't want to scare 'em.

Don't sail up fast behind them (as you do), likely to get shot as you must be a "Pirate". Why else would you approach.

Dave

[hellosailor]

PV-
"Suggesting that ..." Except, no one was suggesting that except perhaps yourself. My comment has nothing to do with keeping a gun on a boat, it has to do with the question of whether you defend yourself--or lie down and be a victim.

Whether the bad guy is a Nazi train loader or a crackhead in your living room, doesn't matter. Whether your means of self defense is a nice twelve gauge double-barrel, or a hard earned martial arts belt, or an antisocial pit bull, doesn't matter.

What matters is that first you have to decide, will you defend yourself? Or submit? After that everything is just details. I never have said, and never will say, that everyone should own/carry/use a gun. Stop by any prison and ask to see the collection (there's always a formal collection) of confiscated "weapons", and you'll be amazed to see how much of what is within everyday grasp, can be used to kill and maim. (And whether that's "murder" or "defend" is again, another topic entirely.)

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Move very slowly, don't want to scare 'em.

Don't sail up fast behind them (as you do), likely to get shot as you must be a "Pirate". Why else would you approach.

Dave

I suggest you look in your own back yard...................._/)

7.30 Report - 22/11/2004: Aussie sailor held in Bali jail

Champion yachtie questioned over guns on board - World - www.smh.com.au

Hundreds of dangerous weapons seized in Adelaide suburbs

pirates pirates everywhere

[bearphish]

a pistol is not a bad idea. though, i cruise alone and don't have to worry with the safety issue of someone else's ignorance toward firearm safety, or bad judgment when it comes down to when they should be used. i am an Army Ranger and i'll be damned if i go ANYWHERE in this world without snappy protection. though, trouble is trouble and i like to stay out of it now, hehehe.
and yes, a flare gun in the hands of good judgment makes a damn fine shooter in the clinch. i also carry a paintball gun made just for jetskis!

oh, and by the way, since their seems to be some sort of issue with American cruisers above... I have been to countries that i would not step foot into without a weapon of some sort, and did and am alive to say so. this UN anti-gun business that the "other colonies" have accepted WITHOUT A FIGHT just proves who is left willing to protect their freedoms and liberties and not bow down to that crap so easily eaten by those in denial. i won't be the one accepting death over some trouble with the law over a self-defence issue. i eat my beans. so anchor far away, and if you see me draggin', well, i'm just testing the bottom for grab. my flag was earned, not granted... carry on.

i'm done now.

[will n]

my flag was earned, not granted...

I like that

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

I suggest you look in your own back yard...................._/)

7.30 Report - 22/11/2004: Aussie sailor held in Bali jail

Champion yachtie questioned over guns on board - World - www.smh.com.au

Hundreds of dangerous weapons seized in Adelaide suburbs

pirates pirates everywhere

So what's your point Del?

That you did a google search and found a couple of instances of wankers with gun's in OZ (two were the same article).

How many wankers with gun's stories would I find if I did the same search for the US.?

Dave

[hellosailor]

Dave, you wouldn't find any "wankers with guns" stories in the US, we'd have no idea what a "wanker" was. [g]

"Customs seized 258 throwing axes, 137 daggers, 113 throwing knives, 70 trench knives, 55 push knives, 33 concealable blades," [Australian Defense Report cited] so nice to know the Aussies are following in the steps of the great dynasties of China. Most folks don't realize that Chinese use chopsticks because one of the Imperial Dynasties imposed a total prohibition on metal instruments that might be used as weapons. Chinese subjects were simply not allowed to own what we would call "cutlery" even if they could afford it. (Of course the early European courts playfully jabbed at each other with early forks as well, cutlery is a newfangled concept.)

Who needs guns, when machetes work so well? As proven by the first million victims in Rwanda, not so long ago. Price of a machete, exported from China? Ten cents US. Fortunately, that's still more than one whole month's wages for people in many parts of the world.

[will@polyplanar.com]

I have a PVC Potato cannon that looks like a bazoka and can knock a person off their feet at 20meters with repeatable accuracy. It will lob a 40mm potato chunk 100m. I wonder if it is legal?

[cat man do]

Some Statistics from the USA

Gun Facts

In 1999, there were 28,874 gun-related deaths in the United States - over 80 deaths every day. (Source: Hoyert DL, Arias E, Smith BL, Murphy SL, Kochanek, KD. Deaths: Final Data for 1999. National Vital Statistics Reports. 2001;49 (8).)

Gun Deaths - International Comparisons

Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):

Homicide Suicide Unintentional

USA 4.08 (1999) 6.08 (1999) 0.42 (1999)

Canada 0.54 (1999) 2.65 (1997) 0.15 (1997)

Switzerland 0.50 (1999) 5.78 (1998) -

Scotland 0.12 (1999) 0.27 (1999) -

England/Wales 0.12 (1999/00) 0.22 (1999) 0.01 (1999)

Japan 0.04* (1998) 0.04 (1995) <0.01 (1997)

* Homicide & attempted homicide by handgun

Compared to Australia

Gun Control Australia

A few months ago the the Australian Bureau of Statistics revealed that
the total number of gun deaths in Australia for year 2003, was 290.


So working it out on the population of Australia compared to USA, you will find you'll have a 9 x better chance of being killed by a gun in the US than I will have in Australia

Having Guns is a bad idea.


Dave

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by will@polyplanar.com

I have a PVC Potato cannon that looks like a bazoka and can knock a person off their feet at 20meters with repeatable accuracy. It will lob a 40mm potato chunk 100m. I wonder if it is legal?

In Australia, aparently yes in some states.

Legal issues - SpudFiles Wiki

Dave

[delmarrey]

I thought we were talking about CRUISING with guns, not the crazy landlubbers.

Originally Posted by 44cruisingcat

To sum up my conclusions drawn from this thread:

If I see a US flagged boat in an anchorage I will anchor as far away from it as possible. Preferably out of range of gunfire.

If I see a US flagged boat dragging it's anchor at night I will mind my own business. I have no intention of getting shot while trying to save someone from their own poor anchoring technique.

So far, I haven found a US cruiser caught with unclaimed weapons with exception of this Crew with gun lands yacht’s captain in jail in which is wasn't the Capt'n that had the gun, but a paranoid, wacko female.

So why the bashing of the of a US flagged boat??????????? It seems Aussie's have the same problem.

[c.spots]

Thanks for a very entertaining series of posts. It took a long time to go through the whole series – and it became largely for the entertainment value. Even the “lies, damned lies, and statistics” to prove whatever your point of view, was fun. It is too bad that the really important information isn't so entertaining, with such fervent believers on both sides in verbal battle. "I've made up my mind, don't try to confuse me with the facts."

My decision to not carry a firearm when cruising in foreign regions was made many years ago for several reasons:

• Very rarely, if ever, warranted by almost all of us by early judicious use of common sense
• More risk than benefit
• Hassle factor
• Other options available for protection, starting with common sense
• Other options available for testosterone rush (no, not common sense for this one)

Although very slight, there is still a risk (probably less than at home) that an intruder may come on board your boat, with violent intent – even if you don’t have a firearm. (Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.) Since when cruising abroad (at least outside the US) carrying a firearm is probably not a wise thing to do, and to ease any sense of vulnerability without one, what other defenses are available?

Many suggestions have been made on this forum regarding non-firearm weapons, such as tazers, flare guns, pepper sprays, machetes, spearguns, fish clubs, CO2 fire extinguishers (I think this one is great!!), and I would like to add stun guns or batons, and crossbows – particularly if rigged with a reel and line for fishing. Does anybody have experience with any of these, and/or recommendations?
What is the legality of these devices in different countries? Hopefully they won’t ban fire extinguishers, when they learn these could be used as a weapon.

If you have immobilized an intruder, what then? (No, I don’t need to know how many pounds of weights it takes to sink the body.) Is it true that nylon ties make good handcuffs?

[44'cruisingcat]

Del, it's because currently 36.27% of people responding to this poll say that cruising with guns is a good idea. From reading the responses, I have come to the conclusion that the vast majority of those are from the USA.

We don't have anything like the same problem. Look at Dave's figures. Australia doesn't have the second amendment. We can't buy assault rifles or amunition in supermarkets. Most households do not own a gun of any sort. Most Aussie cruisers would not consider carrying a gun.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

I thought we were talking about CRUISING with guns, not the crazy landlubbers.



So far, I haven found a US cruiser caught with unclaimed weapons with exception of this Crew with gun lands yacht’s captain in jail in which is wasn't the Capt'n that had the gun, but a paranoid, wacko female.

So why the bashing of the of a US flagged boat??????????? It seems Aussie's have the same problem.

HMMmmmm maybe, but it's not the Aussies or probably any other nationality on here that is talking about getting guns on their boats.

I think you will find it is the US guys that are wanting them on board.

Seeing as they are or were once "Crazy Landlubbers", you can surely see the link.

Dave

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by cat man do

I think you will find it is the US guys that are wanting them on board.

Seeing as they are or were once "Crazy Landlubbers", you can surely see the link.

You two got me on that one.

But I'll bet it's mostly words. I'd think once they got a taste of a customs officer threating to put'm in jail without bail or even a trial. That piece of hardware would end up in the piss.

Don't get me wrong! I'm against cruising with a "weapon" per se. It just seems American's are being stereo typed as the most violent group out there. The two places that scare me are the Middle East & Africa, but they're not cruisers, thankfully! I've been told by soilders that an AK-47 can be had for $20 US at steet markets most anywhere in the Middle East.