What if Everyone Wore a Mask?

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by slug

There is a shortage of masks

People who wear them without a need are depleting the supply for those who must wear them

That is the old (out of date) narrative from when infection rates were low. Yes, it would be inappropriate to buy a stack of medical masks at this time.



The CDC says this, speaking to heath care providers:

HCP use of homemade masks:
In settings where facemasks are not available, HCP might use homemade masks (e.g., bandana, scarf) for care of patients with COVID-19 as a last resort. However, homemade masks are not considered PPE, since their capability to protect HCP is unknown. Caution should be exercised when considering this option. Homemade masks should ideally be used in combination with a face shield that covers the entire front (that extends to the chin or below) and sides of the face.


The other case, which the CDC does not talk about, is wear by the public to reduce transmission. In other words, to keep your sneezes and spit to yourself. You may not think you are infected, but you may be.


Sew your own, if it comes to that. Search back in the thread, and there is a lank to a Cambridge study. The early surgeon's masks were just cloth.

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by GordMay

...The "95" in N95 refers to the filter efficiency. There are three levels of filter efficiencies - 95% (N95), 99% (N99), and 99.97% (N100 or HEPA filter) tested against aerosol (fine mist) droplets 0.3 microns in diameter.

The COVID-19 virus is approximately 0.125 Microns in diameter. However, it often travels in biological aerosols from coughing and sneezing which range in “clump’ size from 0.5 to 3.0 Micron.

FWIW, the aerosolized clumps are understood to mostly be smaller than 0.5 microns, or even mostly smaller than 0.3 microns.

The thing is that infection is a more dynamic process than something merely getting through the mask. Lots of unknown unknowns are present, but the bottom line is that the empiric epidemiologic evidence finds that N-95 use significantly reduce risk of acquiring infection.

To be sure masks don't provide 100% protection, but it's much more complicated than the strainer analogy and I'm curious to see the epidemiologic evidence cited by the other poster.

[Stewie12]

With a mask you must either throw it away or put it in a plastic box, spray it with alcohol and put the lid on it for 5 minutes. That is to kill the virus if it is on the outside of the mask.

[conchaway]

There are a few misguided souls out there that stubbornly still believe that "big brother" should not control every aspect of our lives, but they can easily be ridiculed and shouted down.

[rmlarson1098]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Last Sunday I walked through the boat yard on the way to my boat. I joked with my wife how I only saw a few people, only from more than 75 feet away, and that they were all wearing masks because they were sanding something.

When working in a refinery I wear safety glasses, steel toe boots, long pants, long sleeve, and gloves, not be cause I want to but because it is a safety rule. You don't think much about it.

In a wood shop, body shop, or fiberglass shop masks are worn a good bit of the time. I've worn a full face masks for as much as 6 hours a day inspecting refinery equipment. Not a big deal.

---

So what if we all wore masks full-time, not just if infected, quarantined, or nervous, but because the government asked you to. In factory setting, for example, if your employer said "we're all wearing masks" it wouldn't seem like a big deal. In some operations that has always been the case. You might feel funny today wearing a mask a the grocery store, but you would not if everyone did.

At the moment, of course, masks are not available. Let's skip that.

Let's skip the fact that many masks use exhale valves (the air comes in through the filter but out through a valve) and only protect the wearer.

There are lower capture efficiency types available, even home made. Instead of N95 (95%), they might only be 75% efficient, but 0.25 x 0.25 = 94% efficient if both the infected and non-infected person wear masks. Pretty close.

Perhaps if you want to go to the boat yard to prep the bottom you just keep the mask on. Maybe that's better than staying home.

Just food for thought. Maybe this will become a normal part of keeping the world moving. Times change.

One other quick thought on wearing a N95 type 'paper' mask: when you put the mask to your face, you MUST use both hands to fit the flexible 'nose bridge' piece to your nose. Pinch it on evenly, using index (and maybe middle) fingers of BOTH hands. If you casually pinch it on with one hand, it's most likely gonna leak.

[foufou]

The benefits of using masks are not totally quantifiable but they likely provide some benefit to oneself and to others, so why dismiss them. I have four I use for boat work and table saw work. In normal times I would have ordered another box by now. I keep three in my car and use them while food shopping. I rotate their use keeping them on the dashboard thinking that ultraviolet coming through the windshield might help kill critters hanging out on them. While the consensus seems to be that contagion is by direct touch the airborne idea has not been ruled out entirely. And the six foot distance of safe separation is both arbitrary and likely incorrect if any slight breeze is present. The other day while talking on the phone a small fluffy seed kind of thing drifted by me and went 16' the length of my deck and then some more horizontally till I lost sight of it. Any light weight droplet might have done the same. I encourage the use of masks and happened to have been at the post office where we all kept some some distance and when my turn came the only postal worker with a mask on waited on me. He happened to sneeze, and while he turned his head as he sneezed I was pleased that he had the mask on. Who knows what slight breeze was in the post office and where the sneeze might have gone? Take all precautions you can please.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by foufou

The benefits of using masks are not totally quantifiable but they likely provide some benefit to oneself and to others, so why dismiss them. I have four I use for boat work and table saw work. In normal times I would have ordered another box by now. I keep three in my car and use them while food shopping. I rotate their use keeping them on the dashboard thinking that ultraviolet coming through the windshield might help kill critters hanging out on them. While the consensus seems to be that contagion is by direct touch the airborne idea has not been ruled out entirely. And the six foot distance of safe separation is both arbitrary and likely incorrect if any slight breeze is present. The other day while talking on the phone a small fluffy seed kind of thing drifted by me and went 16' the length of my deck and then some more horizontally till I lost sight of it. Any light weight droplet might have done the same. I encourage the use of masks and happened to have been at the post office where we all kept some some distance and when my turn came the only postal worker with a mask on waited on me. He happened to sneeze, and while he turned his head as he sneezed I was pleased that he had the mask on. Who knows what slight breeze was in the post office and where the sneeze might have gone? Take all precautions you can please.

The problem, of course, is that if you're not perfect in your use of it, you might even be ADDING risk.

If you're six feet from the nearest person, your risk is low. On the other hand, something you're handling and then putting on your face is a risk factor. If you're perfect, maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't. While there are reports that discuss how COVID 19 can exist in aerosol, there is zero evidence that it is actually spread that way. The evidence points more towards droplet/surface transmission. Go with the odds.

Then there's the natural tendency for people to hoard masks they don't need, creating a shortage for those who are trying to help and definitely in need of them. You've got that covered with your process, but human nature being what it is even toilet paper, of which there is NO shortage, can even be in short supply.

All of this said, I can't blame someone in a high risk category from trying to minimize their risk. They just need to be careful that they're not inadvertently increasing their risk instead.

[Brewgyver]

The CDC has weighed in on this. Sick people who MUST go out should wear masks. People who are not sick should not.

Wearing a mask can actually INCREASE the risk of infection.


If you insist on wearing an N95 type mask because "What the hell, I already have it," then you need to practice an ADDITIONAL level of care to avoid infection. Make sure it's fitted properly, and wash your hands after fitting the mask. Avoid adjusting the mask, shifting it, lifting it to take a drink, etc. When you remove the mask, the best practice is probably to hang it from something, wash your hands, and then use a hair dryer at highest heat for several minutes, then place it in a paper bag.

I believe somebody already pointed this out, but many people can't wear masks. If you have significant facial hair, a proper fit is unlikely. Worse, many people literally don't have the lung power to wear a mask for any length of time. As an example, in industries requiring the use of respirators, the first thing the employer does is send the employee to get s spirometry test. If the test is not passed, the employee cannot work in a job requiring a respirator.

[jmschmidt]

3M N95 Disposable Respirator with Exhalation Valve

Do not buy or use any mask with an Exhalation Valve or an exhaust valve if intended for COVID19 protection. If you are infected and know it, this mask will allow you to breath in filtered (2 micron) air but you will exhale the virus through the Exhalation valve. If you are infected and don't know it (asymptomatic), you will breathe in filtered air but you will also exhale the virus through this valve.

Recently on CBS Weekend News, this mask was prominently shown and promoted. It has the potential to spew the virus to uninfected people by both knowingly and unknowingly infected people.

Guess what? This is the type of mask that President Trump has been convinced to order into mass production by his ignorant entourage of hide-bound, bureaucratic and so-called health experts who are part of the swamp. He needs the advice of real people who have worked in the real world and have some semblance of common sense. One look at this mask should tell the readers of this forum that this mask is dangerous. It is only intended for use by those working in dusty, dirty conditions at home or at work, not for infectious diseases.

Those loose fitting stupid “hospital” type masks leave wide gaps around the edges when exhaling to spew contaminates and they only filter to 4 microns or greater.

Use only the plain N95 mask WITHOUT THE EXHALATION VALVE. Please spread this around to everyone you know BY EMAIL AND SOCIAL MEDIA.
You just can’t fix stupid, BUT YOU CAN OUTSMART IT.

Thanks and Good Luck

[pathlesschosen]

So, how does the data compare between countries that do or do not use masks? Basically the OP question. I too know the CDC literature. Other countries slightly disagree. Tokyo and Milan to me have different curves.

Cheers.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by jmschmidt

3M N95 Disposable Respirator with Exhalation Valve

Do not buy or use any mask with an Exhalation Valve or an exhaust valve if intended for COVID19 protection. If you are infected and know it, this mask will allow you to breath in filtered (2 micron) air but you will exhale the virus through the Exhalation valve. If you are infected and don't know it (asymptomatic), you will breathe in filtered air but you will also exhale the virus through this valve.

Recently on CBS Weekend News, this mask was prominently shown and promoted. It has the potential to spew the virus to uninfected people by both knowingly and unknowingly infected people.

Guess what? This is the type of mask that President Trump has been convinced to order into mass production by his ignorant entourage of hide-bound, bureaucratic and so-called health experts who are part of the swamp. He needs the advice of real people who have worked in the real world and have some semblance of common sense. One look at this mask should tell the readers of this forum that this mask is dangerous. It is only intended for use by those working in dusty, dirty conditions at home or at work, not for infectious diseases.

Those loose fitting stupid “hospital” type masks leave wide gaps around the edges when exhaling to spew contaminates and they only filter to 4 microns or greater.

Use only the plain N95 mask WITHOUT THE EXHALATION VALVE. Please spread this around to everyone you know BY EMAIL AND SOCIAL MEDIA.
You just can’t fix stupid, BUT YOU CAN OUTSMART IT.

Thanks and Good Luck

Yup, I mentioned exhalation valves in the opening post. It only took 4 pages for someone to follow up on that.


The producer should have caught that, no?

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by jmschmidt

3M N95 Disposable Respirator with Exhalation Valve

Do not buy or use any mask with an Exhalation Valve or an exhaust valve if intended for COVID19 protection.

Use only the plain N95 mask WITHOUT THE EXHALATION VALVE. Please spread this around to everyone you know BY EMAIL AND SOCIAL MEDIA.
You just can’t fix stupid, BUT YOU CAN OUTSMART IT.

Thanks and Good Luck

Better yet, don't buy an N95 mask at all.

A surgical mask is designed to protect others. That's the mask to buy if you're infected.

Otherwise, give it a rest on spending your money on masks right now. Like everyone has said, leave them for medical professionals.

You can't fix stupid. And you probably can't outsmart it by ignoring public guidelines.

[DeepFrz]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Masks didn't break the contagion. Strict social distancing did.

And the use of masks by everyone.

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by foufou

The benefits of using masks are not totally quantifiable but they likely provide some benefit to oneself and to others, so why dismiss them. I have four I use for boat work and table saw work. In normal times I would have ordered another box by now. I keep three in my car and use them while food shopping. I rotate their use keeping them on the dashboard thinking that ultraviolet coming through the windshield might help kill critters hanging out on them. While the consensus seems to be that contagion is by direct touch the airborne idea has not been ruled out entirely. And the six foot distance of safe separation is both arbitrary and likely incorrect if any slight breeze is present. The other day while talking on the phone a small fluffy seed kind of thing drifted by me and went 16' the length of my deck and then some more horizontally till I lost sight of it. Any light weight droplet might have done the same. I encourage the use of masks and happened to have been at the post office where we all kept some some distance and when my turn came the only postal worker with a mask on waited on me. He happened to sneeze, and while he turned his head as he sneezed I was pleased that he had the mask on. Who knows what slight breeze was in the post office and where the sneeze might have gone? Take all precautions you can please.

Glass is fairly opaque to UV.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19614895

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by Chotu

All good stuff for people working on boats to know as well.

The bold is what I jokingly referred to as the 3 stooges effect.

In any case, if one reads the Wikipedia article on how HEPA filters actually work, it's not like a strainer. There are complex dynamics as play that allow them to stop smaller particles than the "holes" in the mask.

But the specs given do not talk about the pore size, it says that it has tested to stop 95% of 0.3 micron size droplets. And yes it does stop smaller size particles, but not as efficiently.

I found this interesting bit from -
https://www.envirosafetyproducts.com...ifference.html

Are N95 Masks Really Effective against the flu?
A little online research will reveal that the flu virus is .17 microns in size. Clearly smaller than even N100 masks can filter out. However, it is critical to understand that the flu virus does not float in the air by itself. The flu virus is transported from patient to patient on droplets of excretions from sneezing and coughing. These particles are typically 5 microns or larger. When a sick patient wears a respirator, the respirator can be very effective at preventing infectious material from leaving the patients body, and when worn by healthy individuals, it prevents inhalation of said material. More importantly, wearing a mask is a excellent way of preventing the user from rubbing or touching their mouth or nose, which is a very high risk factor. At the end of the day will an N95 mask guarantee to protect you from the Flu? No. But it can substantially reduce your risk or receiving or transmitting the disease.