Safety and Cruising

[Seabeau]

Originally Posted by daletournier

The problem with a thread like this is, it makes the assumption there's regular violence against cruisers travelling afar. This is just not the case. I hear very infrequently of problems.

However, when cruisers go ashore don't they simply become tourists? An hence another kettle of fish.

[goat]

I'd like to personally congratulate the entire cruisers forum for going almost 50 posts and still not turning this into a gun thread. Bravo!

goat

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by Richard5

That reminds me of a time in Galway. Apparently I did walk into the 'wrong pub'. Small, dilapidated, on the waterfront, my kind of place. Late afternoon, I seem to be the only customer. The barkeep said I shouldn't be there as he put my beer in front of me. I asked his name. I kid you not, just like a Hollywood movie, a fellow appears from out of the shadows and says, he told you to leave.

Without moving from my stool, I looked him up and down and noticed he had on his rubber boots. I lit on that as a point of conversation. He continued to growl at me as I inquired what fish does he catch. His attitude broke when I mentioned that I too have done my time in the industry, only I was sure not to speak of it in past tense.

It's a tactic I've used before and with success. It knocks them off their game, I do not address them square on; to change the rules more to my liking as it were. Anyway, it was hours later when we finished up what was meant, by me, to be just a pint. We were new best friends.

I treat the black hearts the same as wild animals; don't back down, don't turn away. Fill their head with questions, bluff them if you have to. If you let them think they have the upper hand, you're a goner.

IMO, this is the answer. We generally respond to aggression with aggression (get the gun or run!), but the trick might be to disarm the other - "flip the script," if you will. In social psychology, it's called non-complementary behavior. Responding in a way that is not expected will throw off the other person and will often disarm them. This is a great podcast with a few stories about it: https://play.podtrac.com/npr-510307/...ayer=true&dl=1 (FYI - this link downloads a large MP3 file. You might want to go Invisibilia's website to their July 15, 2016 podcast called Flip the Script, if you'd like it to open in a browser except you won't be able to stop/start it at will: https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510307/invisibilia)

[boatman61]

Guns.. Screw that.. I like to get close and personal.. Screw the chicken $hit gun bollox..

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Rognvald,

Was there some specific place or activity you had in mind?

Hi, H,
I did make mention of two areas in post #25 but do not want to make them or any other locations the focus of this conversation since it will sidetrack the original question into a "cruisers opinions of safe/dangerous areas." However, to speak in a more generic sense, I believe, will allow people to express their feelings about the matter based on their own experiences and observations and we can all see the variety of differing responses previously expressed. I also think it is important, as some have mentioned, that you are not only considering your own safety but the safety of your crew. What about Ma and Pa in their early Seventies on their first dream cruise, the cruising family with a wife and 3 children aboard or the young twenty-something male with his 110 lb girlfiend as crew? Are their considerations the same as a crew of young 20-40-year-old well-fit racing junkies or an all-male cruising crew? For those of you who have spent time in the military in combat situations, you know that before a mission begins there is an assessment of the objective, its goals, chances of success and potential casualties. Why would prudent cruisers not make similar assessments before cruising any area rather than throwing all caution to the wind with "it won't happen to me" attitude? or "I'll take my risks?" Good luck and safe sailing . . . Rognvald

[boatman61]

The problem with the 'Dream Cruise' is its more fantasy than reality.. the fake beach created for a movie.. the vacation promos.. usually filmed on fenced in all in holiday hotels where the 'friendly natives' are vetted before they can get through the gate..
The list is long and varied and delusional.
The Caribe of the '60's and '70's is long gone forever and as dead as Bogart and Wayne..
Sheltered lives breed disappointments.. as they say in Readers Digest..
Lifes like That..

[IdoraKeeper]

At least it will be safe to conduct docking practice in Roginvald's home Marina now that he's going to Sally forth onto the high seas. Dangers lurk over the horizon.."there be dragons"-.

[hpeer]

About 15 - 20 years ago we spent a week couple of vacations in Belize and a bit in Guatemala. I was pretty shocked to see some young European ladies; couples, two gals, even alone, hitch hiking about the country. Their risk assessment and mine were surely different.

Their assessment of humanity was radically different than mine.

No comment, just observation.

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by IdoraKeeper

At least it will be safe to conduct docking practice in Roginvald's home Marina now that he's going to Sally forth onto the high seas. Dangers lurk over the horizon.."there be dragons"-.

Idora,
You must descend from a long line of Elephantidae to have such a great memory. Funny! However, the truth is that I've only seen it a few times . . . once in a small marina at Jewfish Creek(across from Gilbert's Marina)in the Florida Keys. And, I really didn't have a problem with it since the slips were empty and it was being conducted by a local sailing school instructor. Otherwise . . . Es ist verboten! Good luck and safe sailing . . .

[Pelagic]

Rognald, looking deeper into the risk factor of certain cruising locations, I think it becomes somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy.

A beautiful natural location is discovered by a cruiser and it grows dramatically in popularity over the next 50 years.
The locals, who were originally simple subsistence fishermen and farmers, quite happy in their barter lifestyle, see their community change and get exploited to serve these tourists.
This results in all levels of coruption and inflation as shore side resorts take up the best beaches, which were once pristine, personal and free.

Values change and crime increases as opportunities grow for those who want an easy score at economic parity with these wealthy foreigners.

I have seen this happening in many iconic destinations world wide and there is only one solution! ...

...you need to go a little bit further and discover new locations and pristine beaches that have been untouched by tourists.

Odds are you will meet simple content locals that are happy to share a lunch of freshly caught fish, while you take their dogs for a walk and supply the beer.

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Rognald, looking deeper into the risk factor of certain cruising locations, I think it becomes somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy.

A beautiful natural location is discovered by a cruiser and it grows dramatically in popularity over the next 50 years.
The locals, who were originally simple subsistence fishermen and farmers, quite happy in their barter lifestyle, see their community change and get exploited to serve these tourists.
This results in all levels of coruption and inflation as shore side resorts take up the best beaches, which were once pristine, personal and free.

Values change and crime increases as opportunities grow for those who want an easy score at economic parity with these wealthy foreigners.

I have seen this happening in many iconic destinations world wide and there is only one solution! ...

...you need to go a little bit further and discover new locations and pristine beaches that have been untouched by tourists.

Odds are you will meet simple content locals that are happy to share a lunch of freshly caught fish, while you take their dogs for a walk and supply the beer.
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Very well said, Pelagic! This has been our experience as well and sadly many of our favorite cruising areas in the past will remain fond memories since the dynamics have changed. Good luck and safe sailing. . . Rognvald

[james247]

Originally Posted by rognvald

What is a cruiser's rationale for sailing to countries that have a real, consistent threat of theft and crime against the person? From theft of dinghies, outboards and personal property to robberies, mayhem and worse it seems inconsistent with one's reason for cruising. Can anyone provide a logical answer to this question? In Exodus mode . . . Rognvald

I just try to dodge countries with high murder rates. Like the USA

[dwedeking2]

Originally Posted by james247

I just try to dodge countries with high murder rates. Like the USA

I know your trying to make a point but i would like to point out "country" is to wide a selection criteria. Like boatman pointed out earlier, ports and border crossongs are usually the most dangerous. But an hour or two away can be fine areas to stay or visit.

[CaptJamesCook]

Just to stand up for my country.... USA there is only a small percentage of murders in our Marinas... The number of Dangerous marinas dwarfs the number of perfectly safe Marinas in the USA. If you choose not to come IMHO you will be missing some great experiences. But that is everyone's choice. If you have not been here try not to paint it with a broad brush.
I realize this is a hard thing to do but I strive to do it everyday.

sorry about the drift...

I answered the OP in a previous post,

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by CaptJamesCook

Just to stand up for my country.... USA there is only a small percentage of murders in our Marinas... The number of Dangerous marinas dwarfs the number of perfectly safe Marinas in the USA. If you choose not to come IMHO you will be missing some great experiences. But that is everyone's choice. If you have not been here try not to paint it with a broad brush.
I realize this is a hard thing to do but I strive to do it everyday.

sorry about the drift...

I answered the OP in a previous post,

Hi, Cap,
Actually, this is a very good point you have made since in my lifetime of boating I have never heard of any murders in marinas in the USA and I think one could safely say that the possibility would be very remote. I also have never heard of any murders in anchorages throughout the coastal US where locals have assaulted cruisers. This can not be said of areas like the Caribbean, Central America or coastal South America. Our concept of sailing was not just specifically the destination but primarily the passages to get there: sailing, navigation, watchkeeping, weather forecasting, etc. However, I'm not advocating a ban on sailing outside the US but rather a more enlightened, less naive approach where one carefully assesses potential risks before committing to a cruise based on personal experience and the nature of you and your crew. And, why not patronize those countries where your tourist dollars and presence are appreciated versus a less friendly approach. If you want isolation, the Out Islands of the Bahamas are a great choice. The West Coast of Florida has an archipelago of Islands from Naples to Everglades City that would take years to explore. Even the Gulf side of the Florida Keys is rarely visited with pristine, untouched natural areas. And, then there's the Caymans and still many safe areas of Mexico despite the activities of the drug lords. So, my advice is to analyze your reasons for cruising and adjust your plans accordingly. Cruising should be anything but a combat-ready experience. Good luck and safe sailing . . . Rognvald