Offshore liferaft for 1-2 people?

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by suiramor

The smallest liferafts I am finding online are for 4 people. I am going solo or at most with one other person. I don't want to have a raft that unnecessarily big for me to handle in emergency. Are there any smaller rafts? (ocean, offshore crusing).

You will not find serious ocean type L/R for less than 4 persons. Nobody offers such L/R.
The 4 persons unit is cramped for 4 persons, adequate for 3 and 'comfortable' for 2.
This above statement is based on experience, having opened liferafts of different sizes several times for training AND spending actual time in an 8 pax liferaft with 5 friends (6 pax in total) after boat sinking.
So - 4 persons unit will be fine.
And - it will be not too heave to handle.
We just recently took our 8 persons L/R for service.
It was handled by 2 persons. Admittedly able and healthy (not young though...) so 4 persons unit should not be too heavy.

[Hoodsail]

I like CarlF's solution with the gumby suit, but off shore races require a liferaft consistent with crew, head count. I looked into renting given I would only need one for acouple of wks per yr and the re-certification every few yrs or so is costly. Here's an option I found while searching for liferafts, jimmygreen.com, has Seago Seas Master ISO9650-1, 4 man for 979 pounds (exchange is 1.33 USA $ to the pound) that satisfies off shore safety requirements...plus shipping...so considerably less expensive than many others...good luck in your decision.

[chasfgr]

No such thing, a 4-man is the smallest you can get, and if you're more than 5'5" you'll be very uncomfortable sitting in it, even without companions.
Only get into a liferaft when you can step UP into it.
Having spent 4 hours in a 6-man one in a seastate 5 , it's probably preferable to drown.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Hoodsail

Here's an option I found while searching for liferafts, jimmygreen.com, has Seago Seas Master ISO9650-1, 4 man for 979 pounds (exchange is 1.33 USA $ to the pound) that satisfies off shore safety requirements...plus shipping...so considerably less expensive than many others...good luck in your decision.

For those in the US, the price ought to be less 20% VAT as it's an export from the UK. Given the prices you pay for a LR in the US, this should be a no brainer.

Pete

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Hardhead

My understanding is that larger than needed life rafts are more prone to flipping over - if they are under loaded. More weight to one side I assume. A 4-person raft does seem pretty small however.

Most are water ballasted and virtually impossible to flip over from weight distribution. Helo pilots and aircrew in the CG have to swim out to a life raft in the ocean in full gear and get in once a year, I've sat at the entrance to a 4 man raft with another 250+ lb wet person plus gear and both of us heaved a third 250+ lb wet person plus gear into the raft without it coming close to flipping, just to give you an idea. If the sea state is bad enough to flip a 4 man raft with 1 person in it then it's going to be spinning that 1 man taco raft like a top, so again no benefit on that front from going smaller.

I would highly recommend asking your local CG Auxillary if they have a liferaft day where you can practice getting into one in the water. It's a great thing to practice before your life depends on it and goes a long way toward dispelling some of the myths that seem to perpetuate around them.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by CarlF

Liferafts designs (and race requirements) are from pre EPIRB days when you might drift for weeks drinking from a solar still and catching fish with a hook on a string.

Unless you intend to sail in high latitudes (which hardly anyone does), help will arrive within 12 hours of activating the EPIRB. And almost everyone who activates an EPIRB is rescued still on the boat.

So the first thing is to make sure you have multiple ways to contact SAR and can then survive 12 hours until they arrive. Which means trying to stay with the boat. There are countless stories of liferafts being blown away, not inflating, or people not making it from the boat to the liferaft.

That's why I carry the orange gumby survival suits that the fishermen carry. I can put that on in the safety of the boat and probably survive with that alone if I have to abandon ship.

Once you are in a gumby suit, there are many approaches. There's the dinghy. And here's a two person solution https://www.life-raft.com/store/p1/R...in_Valise.html

But only you can decide where you want to put your safety budget. Most people still carry a full ISO 9560 liferaft either because a race rule requires it or because people react with horror if you say you don't have it.

But those people never ask if you have a 2nd EPIRB/PLB/InReach in case the first is lost or fails - something that is much more important.

Very good points about carrying extra alerting devices and staying with the boat if you can.

I would caution as someone who rescued people at sea for a living for more than 20 years that it's not a given that weather and sea state will allow for you to be rescued in 12 hours even if the rescue helicopter or AMVER vessel can reach you. And survival rates in a gumby suit are far lower than in a liferaft, especially in cold water and/or heavy seas.

Not for nothing we carry a full size crew life raft in every Coast Guard helicopter despite the very real weight penalty, the fact that we're all wearing full dry suits and life jackets with flares and EPIRBS on our person at all times, and the fact that we're on a 15 minute position check comms schedule and a SAR case is initiated if we go an extra 15 minutes with a missed call. Life rafts aren't an obsolete race rule or an anachronistic holdover from those who don't understand modern SAR. To the contrary those who do SAR for a living highly recommend them because when your boat catches fire or sinks they really do dramatically increase one's chances of survival. Especially in storms, which oddly enough seem to uncannily coincide with boats sinking.

[MicHughV]

to the Op...maybe there is a misunderstanding here...the liferaft is not opened up on deck or in the cockpit...

no indeed, the entire valise or canister is thrown into the water, it should be attached to the mother vessel with a stout line that comes with the raft, attached to a solid connection point on the boat...inside the valise or canister that line is attached to a compressed air cylinder, usually CO2.....sometimes just the act of throwing the raft into the water will suffice to trigger the cartridge, sometimes the line needs a quick yank....rafts are also made with automatic releases..do some research here to find one to suit your needs.

most rafts these days are made so that they open right side up, and they also have bags underneath that fill with water to act as a stabilizer...flipping one over, though not impossible, would be tough to do....

my recommendation here is to trundle on down to the nearest liferaft servicing place. Most sea towns have them. There, you will likely find several dozen liferafts on display or being serviced, giving you a firsthand opportunity to find out what it's all about..

as a point of interest, in the recent Vendee around the world race, one of the boats sank, the skipper had scant time to get off the boat, his raft was a 4 man raft, that opened automatically...and the seas were huge at the time...he sat on the windward side inside the raft without any issues, even managed to sleep, fortunately, he was rescued the next day...his rescue was made all the more easy by having an EPIRB with him...he was actually located at night....

to further your knowledge, allow me to direct you to a book worth your while to read.
it's called " survivor" by Michael Greenwald, and it contains several well documented life raft episodes. After you have read this book, you won't need me or anyone else to direct you to get the best life raft you can.

[suiramor]

Originally Posted by Pete7

For those in the US, the price ought to be less 20% VAT as it's an export from the UK. Given the prices you pay for a LR in the US, this should be a no brainer.

Pete

Tried that. Here is the reply from JimmyGreen:

"Unfortunately we are not covered by our insurance policy to export safety equipment to the United States."

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by CarlF

Liferafts designs (and race requirements) are from pre EPIRB days when you might drift for weeks drinking from a solar still and catching fish with a hook on a string.

Unless you intend to sail in high latitudes (which hardly anyone does), help will arrive within 12 hours of activating the EPIRB. And almost everyone who activates an EPIRB is rescued still on the boat.

So the first thing is to make sure you have multiple ways to contact SAR and can then survive 12 hours until they arrive. Which means trying to stay with the boat. There are countless stories of liferafts being blown away, not inflating, or people not making it from the boat to the liferaft.

That's why I carry the orange gumby survival suits that the fishermen carry. I can put that on in the safety of the boat and probably survive with that alone if I have to abandon ship.

Once you are in a gumby suit, there are many approaches. There's the dinghy. And here's a two person solution https://www.life-raft.com/store/p1/R...in_Valise.html

But only you can decide where you want to put your safety budget. Most people still carry a full ISO 9560 liferaft either because a race rule requires it or because people react with horror if you say you don't have it.

But those people never ask if you have a 2nd EPIRB/PLB/InReach in case the first is lost or fails - something that is much more important.

Where’d you get the 12hr to be rescued number?

[Hoodsail]

Suiramor, I cant believe Jimmy Green wont export to the USA....I am in Ct so not a long drive to Canada....and you are in Seattle, so close to...I dont need liferaft until June so hoping after the pandemic is somewhat quelled here in the USA, the border opens, I get vaccinated...I will be able to visit my brother-in-law in Toronto, who just happens to be interested in off-shore sailing, or at least will be for FedEx purposes...Makings of a perfect family visit....outside...with masks and socially distanced....catchup for 14 minutes, throw the LR in the car and drive back home...

[Willroy]

Don't buy seago liferafts. They are delivered without seasick tablets, You must ask seago to send the tablets!!! And if you ask for the tablets they don't send you anything !!They save on tablets
So you know you shouldn't expect anything from their promised warranty

[Manateeman]

Gumby suit.
Really good, proper size.
Practice getting in to it fast blindfolded and half asleep. Then jump directly into ice cold water. Then pretend your crew has a broken arm and you need to Gumby them. Pretend the boat is on fire.
Repeat until you don’t even think about what to do next.
Always work, eat and sleep with an ACR firefly attached to you.
Whistle. Spider knife.
I’m not big on life rafts.
Kinda keeps you on a sharp edge...Flashlights, fire extinguisher, Gumby.
Life rafts make people feel nice and safe...that’s very, very dangerous.
Gumby. Whistle, strobe, knife. Practice.
Happy trails to you
Captain Mark and his manatee crew who would require a life raft the size of the Goodyear blimp.

[xslim]

Originally Posted by Willroy

Don't buy seago liferafts. They are delivered without seasick tablets, You must ask seago to send the tablets!!! And if you ask for the tablets they don't send you anything !!They save on tablets
So you know you shouldn't expect anything from their promised warranty

I got one from SeaGo, SeaMaster Liferaft.
They delivered seasick promptly withing few days in EU after registering liferaft.