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Old 23-01-2018, 06:54   #16
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

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Originally Posted by sagablu View Post
If it helps any I know a few climate researchers who work in the Artic. They are all unskilled with firearms and were issued shotguns with big game slugs due to the Polar bear threat. Simple manual of arms ( working the gun) reliable and tolerant of unskilled maintenance. Less expensive to buy than adequate rifle as well. You can get a Remington 870 for a bit over $300 US. A common and well regarded gun. I am somewhat skilled in firearms but by no means an instructor. I was able to train these guys to shoulder a weapon and hit the target in an afternoon. Don't forget to learn how to clear a jam quickly.

FYI, from what i understand running away from an aggressive polar bear is just making it more fun for the bear. You will have no chance of outrunning it.

Hope this helps
Thanks.

Yes, shotgun with slugs is looking like a practical choice.

I can shoot, and some of my crew have military experience, so the skills will not be a problem. We'll do some live fire exercises first thing.
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Old 23-01-2018, 06:56   #17
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
I think the only real problem you'll face will be installing an officially acceptable permanent gun safe on the boat.
I guess I will be needing tips on that, too

Seems like complications and expense at every turn
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Old 23-01-2018, 06:59   #18
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

I remember Alistair Flint needing a gun on one of his high latitude jaunts - might be something on the blog about it? Or some useful info anyway.

Sumara of Weymouth Blog » Alasdair
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Old 23-01-2018, 07:15   #19
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

Bear attacks are not a joke. I read this while browsing around:

"I would use full bore diameter HARD rifled slugs such as Brenneke Gold Magmum 3" @ about 1 Ton of energy. Will this STOP a large Ursus arctos horribilis or a very large Ursus americanus MY ANSWER is simple for things that can Eat, Scratch or Gore you to death, THERE ARE NO guarantees. Has this round been effective against these targets in the past, YES.

Below is a example of a "managed recoil" slug against a average lower 48 black bear Ursus americanus, it worked.
http://www.tacticalshotgun.ca/conten...ck_bear_a.html

My last thought to you is this; I have had the misfortune of engaging at close range one 300 Lbs Brown Bear (Ursus arctos), one near record 7 1/2 ft and 190 Lbs Mountain Lion, both with a scattergun. The cat and bear took 2 shots each of Brenneke classic 2 3/4" slugs at about 50 ft. Nothing in my world until that moment had prepared me for these animals attacking me. The reason I mention this is that I spent several tours in a war zone and 20 yrs as a LE and still it was beyond terrifying. I had the skills and practice to go on automatic and just respond to the threat. PLEASE practice and learn to operate what ever weapon you choose until it is automatic!!!! It might save your life."

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=328666

"Ursus arctos horribilus" (what a great name ) is a grizzley, not smaller than a polar bear (ursus maritimus) and presumably not less aggressive.

By the sound of this account, the choice of weapon is not a trivial or merely theoretical question.
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"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
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Old 23-01-2018, 07:16   #20
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I never in a million years expected to be starting a thread like this, but it appears that we will be OBLIGATED to carry a rifle of minimum calibre of 30.06 when we visit Greenland in the summer.

We will depart Cowes probably 1 June and visit the Orkneys, Faroes, and Iceland on the way, and will return directly to Northern Ireland, according to the present version of the plan.

So how to fulfill this requirement? I have never been near a gun in the decades I've lived in Europe and have no idea how to go about buying (or renting) one, or what rules there are in UK, Faroes, and Icelandic waters about declaring them, sealing them, or whatever. I will be very grateful for any tips, especially if there is someone who has done a cruise like this.
Bet you can buy one when you get there and that they know more about the question/needs than CF
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Old 23-01-2018, 07:16   #21
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

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Originally Posted by conachair View Post
I remember Alistair Flint needing a gun on one of his high latitude jaunts - might be something on the blog about it? Or some useful info anyway.

Sumara of Weymouth Blog » Alasdair
Thanks!
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Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
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Old 23-01-2018, 07:17   #22
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Bet you can buy one when you get there and that they know more about the question/needs than CF
Maybe, but NOBODY knows more about anything, than the collective wisdom of CF!
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I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
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Old 23-01-2018, 07:18   #23
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post

The requirement to carry a rifle is a condition to getting an expedition permit, which is not required for Southern or Western Greenland, but is required for the national parks and for the remote areas we plan to visit including Scoresby Sund.
Ah, I don't know anything about the east coast. That has (in the past) been pretty serious ice country, with a pretty small (if any) 'open window', but I have not looked at it in a couple years.

Do you have a link to these expedition requirements? I am curious.

My understanding was there actually were not many polar bears left in greenland - over hunted. I saw them in Canada reasonably commonly, but not one in greenland, however I was only in the west.

Honestly I dont think it really matters what gun you get, you are really really unlikely to use it. This is close to the 'hit by meteor' category of risk, if you exercise common prudence.
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Old 23-01-2018, 07:19   #24
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

12ga shotgun its very good choice!
You can use slugs or 00 buckshot with flitecontrol.
Only one problem shotgun its little big and heavy.
I personal prefer this pistol
https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p226-mk25-full-size.html
Its expensive but very good use aboard in wet and salt condition!
This handgun basically used by coastguard and military marinas.
With good 9mm +P ammo its nice choice for self defense !
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Old 23-01-2018, 07:25   #25
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
Ah, I dont know anything about the east coast.

Do you have a link to these expedition requirements? I am curious.

My understanding was there actually were not many polar bears left in greenland - over hunted. I saw them in Canada reasonably commonly, but not one in greenland, however I was only in the west.

Have you shot any sort of long gun before? I personally would prefer the rem 700 30-06 to the slug gun, but honestly I dont it really matters what gun you get, you are really really unlikely to use it.

The Greenland authorities have great online resources. See here: Travel activities in remote parts of Greenland - Naalakkersuisut

The Greenland authorities may be relaxed, but they have a lot of requirements -- you have to have one each of PLB, handheld marine VHF, and sat phone for every sub-group of your expedition which is separated off for even several hours, and you have to have SAR/evacuation insurance. You have to have an expedition permit, and you have to have a gun of at least 30.06 caliber.


Yes, I am comfortable with guns, although I haven't shot in many years. I was a good shot back in the day. Never did any hunting (hated the idea of it), but used to shoot skeet and plink at targets. God forbid we would ever have to use it -- I guess it's like the life raft.
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I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
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Old 23-01-2018, 07:28   #26
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

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Originally Posted by Smart555 View Post
12ga shotgun its very good choice!
You can use slugs or 00 buckshot with flitecontrol.
Only one problem shotgun its little big and heavy.
I personal prefer this pistol
https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p226-mk25-full-size.html
Its expensive but very good use aboard in wet and salt condition!
This handgun basically used by coastguard and military marinas.
With good 9mm +P ammo its nice choice for self defense !

A doubt if a 9mm pistol would bother a 700 kg (about 3/4 ton!) polar bear much.

I would definitely choose a big game rifle if I had a free choice.

But I think it will be a 12 gauge with 3" slugs simply because that is easier to get permitted, and I might be able to just borrow the weapon from a friend here instead of buying one. Also I've never used a big game rifle, and I have a lot of experience with 12 gauges going back to childhood.
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"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
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Old 23-01-2018, 07:50   #27
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

A few have commented on having something big enough to kill a bear quickly, with one shot.
That gun does not exist! Bears have incredible power and stamina.
Years ago I shot a black bear with a 7mm rem mag. Literally blew it's lung out of its body. It still turned and ran a good hundred yards. I've seen a grizzly take a 12 guage with buckshot to the face from inside 20 yards. He also turned and ran.
If you have to shoot a bear to save yourself, especially something as large as a polar bear, you are trying to sting it enough for it to turn and run.
I would personally go with a 12 guage and alternate buck shot and slug. Rifling barrel won't be necessary for how close you will be.
A hunting rifle will be too difficult to aim at close quarters.
While travelling, make noise. Talk, use bells, anything to let them know you are there. Surprising a bear is where it gets dangerous. Most will purposely avoid you.
It sounds like a great adventure, have fun and don't stress too much about the bears. The chances of actually having to shoot are quite slim.
Seeing them in the wild does give you an adrenaline boost though. You won't ever forget it.
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Old 23-01-2018, 07:52   #28
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

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A doubt if a 9mm pistol would bother a 700 kg (about 3/4 ton!) polar bear much.

I would definitely choose a big game rifle if I had a free choice.

But I think it will be a 12 gauge with 3" slugs simply because that it is easier to get permitted, and I might be able to just borrow the weapon from a friend here instead of buying one. Also I've never used a big game rifle, and I have a lot of experience with 12 gauges going back to childhood.
You absolutely right 9mm pistol its useless for defense from polar bear!
In my opinion , for this scenario better have something like
https://ruger.com/products/superRedh...an/models.html
You can carry this weapons unlike bid games rifles.
But much better options if you not extrem hunter stay away from this predator or run
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Old 23-01-2018, 07:54   #29
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
A doubt if a 9mm pistol would bother a 700 kg (about 3/4 ton!) polar bear much.

I would definitely choose a big game rifle if I had a free choice.

But I think it will be a 12 gauge with 3" slugs simply because that is easier to get permitted, and I might be able to just borrow the weapon from a friend here instead of buying one. Also I've never used a big game rifle, and I have a lot of experience with 12 gauges going back to childhood.
I'm no expert in Polar bear defense, but I would think that the 12ga with a mix of buck and slugs would actually be a better choice. More than likely, you'll not resort to using the weapon until the animal's quite close, and a shotgun's a good bed for the shorter ranges.

Mossberg used to make one with a line thrower option. I thought that was pretty cool.
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Old 23-01-2018, 08:04   #30
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Re: I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

A 12 guage shotgun would be a very good choice. Short, compact & doesn't weigh much. Be sure to get one with a slug barrel. Remington 870 would get my vote. Not sure how they feel about handguns but a nice 44 magnum would fit the bill. Not a problem to carry, slide it in a holster. Most folks that fly fish up in Alaska, that seems to be the weapon of choice
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