Do I Really Need a Life Raft?

[letsgetsailing3]

Depends on what your life is worth.

[Galumay]

You definitely dont NEED one, hundreds, if not thousands of people have sailed across oceans and round the world without one. When I first started cruising they weren't even a thing for cruising yachts. But, like chart plotters, auto pilots and internet for weather, they are a nice to have if you can afford one. I have 2 on my Cat, one is pretty old and I will get rid of it, the other one is only just out of test, I will keep it for now, the weight penalty is minimal, the space couldn't really be used for anything else.

[rslifkin]

The dinghy option is viable if the weather is decent, but if the weather has totally gone to crap, you're unlikely to be able to launch the dinghy, get it in it, and get yourself somewhere (or even just motor into the crap waiting to be picked up). If the life raft is in a valise that you can take with you, in moderate weather you could take it along with you in the dinghy in case conditions deteriorate beyond what the dinghy can survive.

In my mind, a life raft isn't a primary safety device. It's the last resort device for when all of your preparation has failed to keep you from needing it and all of your alternative options have been exhausted. How necessary that is really depends on where you boat. The colder the water and the longer the likely time to rescue, the more you need a life raft. If you're near shore in a populated area with warm water, a life raft is pretty low on the priority list, as it's unlikely it would make a difference between getting rescued safely or not in a worst-case scenario.

[Snore]

As a delivery captain and someone with a fair amount of experience my answer is "it depends".

If you are going to dump the life raft, please get rid of the EPIRB. It is unfair to the SAR folks to be required to go out for someone who does not properly prepare. Sound harsh? Consider the scenario below.

The odds of a catastrophic failure are higher when the seas are running. How will your dinghy fair on 10-12's or more likely 14-18 foot seas? So right about here you are saying how you only sail in nice weather. Well island hopping, that could work. But if something happens and the seas are even 8-10 how will that dinghy do?

What about going to the ABC's or jumping up to the Turks and Caicos or Panama? Don't expect a lot of help from any coast guard.

A life raft costs between $2 and $3,000. The Revere offshore valise https://www.landfallnavigation.com/r...se-45-oc3.html takes up 30 x 19.5 x 13. Hard to believe that on a 43' cat, you can't find the room!

Finally, as a delivery captain I flat refuse jobs in the Caribbean or offshore if the vessel doesn't have a life raft. Why? Twice I have had boats with problems when as master I was reviewing my bailout checklist- the crew didn't need to know. But I was genuinely worried about vessel integrity. Knowing there was a raft, and an EPIRB made me comfortable. Loss of crew or myself was less of a concern than sorting out the boat.

So it depends. Me? I'd get a good life raft and an ACR EPIRB. And I would suggest the same to my customer

[letsgetsailing3]

It's sort of like what Bell used to say for motorcycle helmets.


"If you've got a $10 head, get a $10 helmet."


If you ever need one, you'll be glad you shelled out for it.

[grantmc]

Interesting discussion and some wonderful points raised on both sides. Just a couple I would add.

1. Many liferafts are now cheaply produced. The reality is that most are bought to satisfy rules rather than safety, particularly for coastal racing. People buy cheap. And cheap rafts are only intended to be used for a few hours, ie. until help arrives. And that's the quality level they're made to.

I've a mate working at a firm servicing rafts. His view is that many such rafts wouldn't even work (before their first service) as they're so poorly packed at manufacture. And a small percentage brought in can't even 'repaired' at their first service as they're such rubbish.

All safety devices have the potential to fail when needed, particularly if skipper/crew have never practised their use.

2. Dinghies can be made safer with a little thought. and planning. It's not difficult to make a tent for a dinghy and have a water proof compartment, especially if you make the right choice of a hard dinghy rather than a stupid doughnut.

Rafts also roll in big seas. A component of all safety at sea courses is to roll the raft back over and get in it. That of course assumes you can swim to it if you're washed out.

3. In respect to the motor cycle helmet analogy in the previous post. I don't see that as valid. Motor cycles crash all the time and heads vs concrete or steel, ouch. Boats don't sink anywhere near the regularity of motor cycle crashes.

4. There's a limit to what most people can afford for safety and also practicality. Even cheap knock off rafts are expensive to buy and service. Add so many rafts out there are way out of service, and of course all rafts are actually untested.

5. And let's get real, how many of you insist that all on board even wear their life jackets? teether on? I've met hundreds of ucean cruisers in the South Pacific that don't bother. So what use is their life raft when they've fallen in?


One last point. If you have a raft then go and watch it being serviced. Pull the cord yourself and check the inventory. Maybe add some extras. All reputable service companies will allow you to observe. It's your one chance to actually test your raft and understand what's in it.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by grantmc

Interesting discussion and some wonderful points raised on both sides. Just a couple I would add.

1. Many liferafts are now cheaply produced. The reality is that most are bought to satisfy rules rather than safety, particularly for coastal racing. People buy cheap. And cheap rafts are only intended to be used for a few hours, ie. until help arrives. And that's the quality level they're made to.

I've a mate working at a firm servicing rafts. His view is that many such rafts wouldn't even work (before their first service) as they're so poorly packed at manufacture. And a small percentage brought in can't even 'repaired' at their first service as they're such rubbish.

All safety devices have the potential to fail when needed, particularly if skipper/crew have never practised their use.

2. Dinghies can be made safer with a little thought. and planning. It's not difficult to make a tent for a dinghy and have a water proof compartment, especially if you make the right choice of a hard dinghy rather than a stupid doughnut.

Rafts also roll in big seas. A component of all safety at sea courses is to roll the raft back over and get in it. That of course assumes you can swim to it if you're washed out.

3. In respect to the motor cycle helmet analogy in the previous post. I don't see that as valid. Motor cycles crash all the time and heads vs concrete or steel, ouch. Boats don't sink anywhere near the regularity of motor cycle crashes.

4. There's a limit to what most people can afford for safety and also practicality. Even cheap knock off rafts are expensive to buy and service. Add so many rafts out there are way out of service, and of course all rafts are actually untested.

5. And let's get real, how many of you insist that all on board even wear their life jackets? teether on? I've met hundreds of ucean cruisers in the South Pacific that don't bother. So what use is their life raft when they've fallen in?


One last point. If you have a raft then go and watch it being serviced. Pull the cord yourself and check the inventory. Maybe add some extras. All reputable service companies will allow you to observe. It's your one chance to actually test your raft and understand what's in it.

Good Post.. its surprising how many raft owners have never experienced inflating/launching their raft and then climbing in.. or rightened one that's flipped yet seem to think using a dinghy is unsurviveable.

[mvzenith]

I am not sure why you wouldn`t have one, in the grand scheme of things its not that expensive. I bet Kevin Escoffier and Tapio Lehtinen are glad they had one aboard. and hopefully you will never need it.

[BobFord]

Many years ago I was not impressed with the chance of survival in a raft ,when remote. My choice is to enable my dingy , a RIB , to be quick release , to always have motor and fuel and to be sailable ( when crossing oceans ). Rather try to survive than sit and die !

[Sailer_Med]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Good Post.. its surprising how many raft owners have never experienced inflating/launching their raft and then climbing in.. or rightened one that's flipped yet seem to think using a dinghy is unsurviveable.

I am taking an advanced rescue, fire, first aid as soon as my preferred training center offers it again! Life raft procedures is a big part of this.

But actually knowing the difficulty in dealing with a life raft situation why would you think a dingy is better?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by grantmc

1. Many liferafts are now cheaply produced. The reality is that most are bought to satisfy rules rather than safety, particularly for coastal racing. People buy cheap. And cheap rafts are only intended to be used for a few hours, ie. until help arrives. And that's the quality level they're made to.

I've a mate working at a firm servicing rafts. His view is that many such rafts wouldn't even work (before their first service) as they're so poorly packed at manufacture. And a small percentage brought in can't even 'repaired' at their first service as they're such rubbish.

All safety devices have the potential to fail when needed, particularly if skipper/crew have never practised their use.

To this point, I recall that Evans Starzinger once conducted a test of rafts at gathering of world cruisers. Apparently, about 1/3rd of rafts failed to open or operate at all. This was an uncontrolled test, just using whoever was around (and willing), but in that sense it was a snapshot of the real world.

[Time2Go]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

To this point, I recall that Evans Starzinger once conducted a test of rafts at gathering of world cruisers. Apparently, about 1/3rd of rafts failed to open or operate at all. This was an uncontrolled test, just using whoever was around (and willing), but in that sense it was a snapshot of the real world.

I just had my Spinlock PFD recertified after 5 years.
Plenty of miles but never deployed
Inflated and pressure tested fine
BEST MONEY I EVER SPENT
I’d keep the life raft for sure
Cheers
Neil
PS: I also like to pop of out of date flares Great Fun

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Time2Go

I just had my Spinlock PFD recertified after 5 years.
Plenty of miles but never deployed
Inflated and pressure tested fine
BEST MONEY I EVER SPENT
I’d keep the life raft for sure
Cheers
Neil
PS: I also like to pop of out of date flares Great Fun

There's a world of difference between an inflatable PDF, and a liferaft. Please note though, I'm not saying don't get a life raft. I'm suggesting that it should be looked at with a critical cost-benefit eye, and with an understanding of actual risk.

BTW, I didn't even know PDF's were "certified." I have a Spinlock inflatable -- awesome vest . But I don't recall any "certification." Certainly it should be tested every few years. I've always done that. Is that what you mean?

[Time2Go]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

There's a world of difference between an inflatable PDF, and a liferaft. Please note though, I'm not saying don't get a life raft. I'm suggesting that it should be looked at with a critical cost-benefit eye, and with an understanding of actual risk.

BTW, I didn't even know PDF's were "certified." I have a Spinlock inflatable -- awesome vest . But I don't recall any "certification." Certainly it should be tested every few years. I've always done that. Is that what you mean?

Hi Mike,
When my Spinlock turned 5
I wrote them and asked about getting it serviced
and checked.
They referred me to a company in Florida to
have it tested.
I received a report of what they did, methods of
tests and results.
Reported the install of new battery in the strobe
Very comprehensive
In about a 6 weeks when I get home
(Presently in Aruba about to depart
for the San Blas-Canal-lasPerlas)
I will post a copy of the report.
This facility also does servicing for lots of
commercial clients that need recertification
of their gear.
I don’t recall if the report is an actual
recertification certificate as they issue with the
big life rafts I saw in their facility.
Also had a Seaangel automatic AIS beacon
installed in the deckvest,
Cheers
Neil
PS: Anybody have any suggestions of anchorages
in the San Blas and Las Perlas islands?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Time2Go

Hi Mike,
When my Spinlock turned 5
I wrote them and asked about getting it serviced
and checked.
They referred me to a company in Florida to
have it tested.
I received a report of what they did, methods of
tests and results.
Reported the install of new battery in the strobe
Very comprehensive
In about a 6 weeks when I get home
(Presently in Aruba about to depart
for the San Blas-Canal-lasPerlas)
I will post a copy of the report.
This facility also does servicing for lots of
commercial clients that need recertification
of their gear.
I don’t recall if the report is an actual
recertification certificate as they issue with the
big life rafts I saw in their facility.
Also had a Seaangel automatic AIS beacon
installed in the deckvest,
Cheers
Neil
PS: Anybody have any suggestions of anchorages
in the San Blas and Las Perlas islands?

Thanks Neil. Sounds like a good service. I've always just tested and assessed my inflatable myself, but I'm sure the service you used is much better. Spinlock's aren't cheap, so probably a good idea .