Fire extinguisher quandary

[maury]

I am about to replace my two extinguishers and for the most part I see BC extinguishers for CG approved marine. A veteran fireman friend is pushing me to get an abc. He is not a boater and we haven’t had a good conversation on the issues yet but from what I understand the caustic nature of ABC with monoammonium phosphate will significantly compromise my boat whereas BC sodium carbonate extinguisher will not. How do other cruisers balance this issue?

[flee27]

Personally I have the required extinguisher to meet the CG requirements and then Halon/Halotron/etc. in case I actually ever need to use one. They will put out all types of fires and leave no residue or toxic chemicals behind. The only down side is they are expensive.

Foster

[boatpoker]

I have always had ABC. If there is a fire onboard I don't want to have to think if I've got the right chemical, I want to react as fast as possible. I've seen how fast a fire can get beyond control.

[Pete7]

We removed the powder and replaced with AFFF, 1 x 1L and 1x3L, plus a 2Kg CO2, a fire blanket and a clean agent auto in the engine compartment.

Halon has been banned for many years. https://www.firesafe.org.uk/phase-out-of-halons/

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I have always had ABC. If there is a fire onboard I don't want to have to think if I've got the right chemical, I want to react as fast as possible. I've seen how fast a fire can get beyond control.

I agree. I have the ABC extinguishers.

[rslifkin]

There are plenty of marine approved ABC extinguishers out there. And beyond what you're required to carry, you can carry whatever additional extinguishers you want. Such as a type K to avoid using a powder extinguisher on a food-based galley fire. Or purple K or foam as options that are more effective against a fuel fire. Or a clean agent to knock down an electrical panel fire without filling the panel with corrosive ABC dry powder.



But as boatpoker said, when it comes down to it, there's a lot to be said for being able to grab something and use it quickly without having to think first and assess the fire. If you do end up with any special purpose extinguishers on board, they should be located near the thing you intend to use them for so you're likely to grab it when you'd want it and less likely to grab it for something else.

[tkeithlu]

Carbon dioxide is the cheap alternative to Halon. It can flood an enclosed space such as an engine compartment while doing no damage. I have 40 pounds of the stuff piped to my engine room. Water is a good alternative if there is nothing above 12vDC in the space - it does next to no damage to marine electronics, most of which are waterproof to begin with.

Left out of too many such discussions is the horrible flammability of fiberglas resin - it burns like greased paper, and the smoke is deadly. When you see that black smoke, run/dive, do not fight.

[davil]

I am sure you know.

the tiny little "Marine Extinguisher" sold by "chandlers" forgot the releasing time,I think few seconds?

I replaced mine with the next size up at Lowes for half price.

[rslifkin]

When it comes to engine room fire suppression, I've always wondered why nobody makes a boat system that works like an airplane cargo suppression system. 2 bottles of extinguishing agent. First one dumps quickly like a standard boat system, then the second one fires off a few minutes later and releases slowly to keep the agent concentration up while things cool off to prevent re-ignition.



CO2 does work as a clean agent, but it's far more dangerous to any living things in the space it's discharged into. Various clean agents have different required concentrations for extinguishing and concentrations where they're harmful to human life. Ideally in any space occupied by people you want to use an agent with a decent gap between those 2 concentrations. That way if the system discharges while you're in the space you can get out rather than dying.

[kayakerChuck]

I've got a 30' boat. I have a couple fire blankets, and a selection of ABC extinguishers. I will use the one that is closest to me.

If I'm fighting a real fire, I'm fighting for my life. The boat, and all the things in it, are sacrificial at that point.

I've been involved in a few boat fires. Not fun.

[Jammer]

I have a 5 pound Purple K extinguisher. It is rated 30 B:C and meets USCG requirements, and is on a secure bracket to one side of the companionway.

It is highly effective on fuel, oil, and grease fires. It is messy but not as bad as the monoammonium phosphate used in ABC extinguishers.

The problems with CO2 extinguishers are that 1) they are prohibitively large and heavy to use aboard and 2) You have to get really close to the fire. I like them. I have one in my shop next to the welding equipment, and one in my kitchen at my house.

The problems with AFFF is that the extinguishers are 1) they're susceptible to freezing and 2) the chemicals traditionally used in them are now thought to be carcinogenic and an environmental toxin, so extinguishers and recharging service are unavailable in the USA until someone figures out a good way to reformulate them.

The problems with halon extinguishers are the extreme toxicity of the gaseous reaction products when they are used on a fire, the high cost, and the fact that they are considered contraband by customs officials in Europe and elsewhere. The halon substitutes all pose at least some of these problems.


Water also works.


The anecdotal reports of people using a fire extinguisher on a boat are not particularly positive. They work ok on cooking fires and that's about it.

[tkeithlu]

Yeah, there are problems with every type of extinguisher. A few notes:

ABC extinguishers qualify for your boat, but are not very effective on Class A (paper, wood, boats) fires, because they do zip to remove heat and reignition happens.

ABC extinguishers qualify for the USCG regs only if they are in the approved marine brackets, and you'll find that the bracket doubles the price.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

ABC extinguishers qualify for the USCG regs only if they are in the approved marine brackets

It does not say that in US Code of Federal Regulations Title 46, SUBPART 25.30 which is the only applicable law in the US.

[capt jgw]

The "A" in ABC stands for common combustibles that you could use water on. And you're sitting on all the water in the world, which is much more effective than the dry chemical in an ABC. That said there is a big advantage in not having to guess which extinguisher to use and it's not always obvious which type of fire you're dealing with. It's also common to have more than one type going at once, electrical setting wood on fire for example. So the ABC type is probably best. I carry three older 20# C02's and three new dry chem ABC's. The C02's technically don't count towards carriage requirements but the ABC's do.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by capt jgw

The "A" in ABC stands for common combustibles that you could use water on. And you're sitting on all the water in the world, which is much more effective than the dry chemical in an ABC. That said there is a big advantage in not having to guess which extinguisher to use and it's not always obvious which type of fire you're dealing with. It's also common to have more than one type going at once, electrical setting wood on fire for example. So the ABC type is probably best. I carry three older 20# C02's and three new dry chem ABC's. The C02's technically don't count towards carriage requirements but the ABC's do.

Also remember that CO2 works by displacing oxygen and using it in a small cabin can be fatal. Neither should it be used on a wide range of materials.
https://www.cityfire.co.uk/news/when...-extinguisher/