Seeing at Night

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Red Sky

The OP didn’t present this as an augmentation of existing watch keeping capabilities, it was presented an alternative to proper, on-deck watch keeping...big difference. You aren’t supposed to necessarily be “comfortable” on night watch, you’re supposed to be awake and aware. Warm and comfortable on the settee in the middle of the night...you fall asleep.

IMO, it appears there has been some mis-viewing or mis-interpreting of the scope of the OP's posting and focus of discussion and of the most important attributes of information in the posting. While his statement does indicate and expounds [perhaps a bit excessively] on the relative comfort and convenience [and personal worth of the gadget] of being able to have enhanced observation from inside, it also goes into considerable evaluation of and examples of the enhanced vision keeping of a low light camera and the flexibility of remote display, yielding vision awareness considerably beyond what the human eye can discern in low light situations. Sometimes it pays to read between the lines and to discern the important takeaways that are not stated.

On a sailed boat, I too would advocate not relying on navigating from just inside, but when one does go inside it would be very beneficial to also bring along the enabling sensory augmenting tool with you when you momentarially leave an outer helm station or to have redundant remote display, just like it is great to have engine monitoring gauges and warning lights or sound alarms in the salon so that you can see or hear that a mechanical issue is arising; or if you opt to navigate from an inside helm location having all the enabling functions and aids at such station is invaluable, e.g., radar / chart plotter, AIS. There being many vessels where the primary helm station is inside the vessel and many more where there is a second helm station inside for use when climatic conditions do not favor being outside. And when motoring a sailboat, using an inside helm is a very common practice as one does not need to be able to trim the sails and have access to sheets, halyards and winches. Since the camera provides for improved vision, the remote display, or displays should be accessible to the watch keeper, and perhaps also to the helmsperson. Note: The US Coast Guard recommends that the diligent watch keeper be someone other than the helms person and to be not near or to the many distractions of the "bridge".

As to low light cameras, my experience is that the thermal cameras have greater capabilities to discern objects in low light conditions than do the low light cameras, but thermal cameras do seem to be more expensive, I know the thermal images used for monitoring our motors and motor control electronics during the prototyping and development stage at our company are quite expensive but amazing in measuring the specific temperatures. Albeit specific temperature monitoring is not necessary for navigation and watch keeping but temperature differences do provide detail images.

Diligence and complete situational awareness being the key to watch keeping.

USCG Navigation Center published guidance:

"When do I need a Look-out?"

"According to Rule 5, all vessels are responsible for maintaining a proper look-out at all times - this includes one-man crews, unmanned crafts, and recreational boats."

"The term look-out implies watching and listening so that he/she is aware of what is happening around the vessel. The emphasis is on performing the action, not on the person. Still, in all but the smallest vessels, the lookout is expected to be an individual who is not the helmsman and is usually located in the forward part of the boat, away from the distractions and noises of the bridge. While no specific location on a vessel is prescribed for the lookout, good navigation requires placement at the point best suited for the purpose of hearing and observing the approach of objects likely to be brought into collision with the vessel."
"The size of the vessel and crew effect this answer, however, the emphasis in every legal decision points to the need for a proper, attentive look-out. While the use of radar to evaluate the situation is implied in the requirement to use all available means, that is still understood to be secondary to maintaining a look-out by sight and hearing."


And likewise as to the use of cameras [night or day vision] to aid in evaluating the situation, for example, utilizing enhanced low light vision would be implied in the requirement to use ALL AVAILABLE MEANS, that is also still understood to be secondary to maintaining a look-out by sight and hearing.

So just like having radar or AIS, if you have such awareness augmenting instrumentation and it is functional you are supposed to use such, ditto for the use of cameras and binoculars, or hearing aids if you are hard of hearing, or even utilizing the new glasses that aid the colorblind persons being able to clearly discern red from green, i.e., port from starboard light signals, or red over green sailing machine light signals, or the color of lateral markers, etc..

Do note that a proper look out is required of all vessels at all times, even when at anchor or moored, and even an unmanned vessel is still to be watch keeped. Now how that look out task is accomplished when no one is on board raises challenges but such challenges do not reduce the vessels obligation to maintain a proper look out. When you go swimming or diving you are not keeping a proper look out. The unmanning of vessels is when technological augmentation and enhancements truly come to the fore because there are times when vessels are left unmanned or unwomaned yet a look out is still required. And when single handed on long excursions, the look out inevitably takes time to take watch of the inside of their eye lids, or to resolve a nature call within the head. The evolution to autonomous vessels will be interesting as to the development and utilization of sensors and artificial intelligence.

I'm pretty sure that all of us do not always maintain a proper look out as per the requirements. Who hasn't left their vessel unattended at anchor? Who hasn't had everyone sleeping onboard?

I have copied the original post below. Often it is what is unstated that is more important than what is stated in a post, or which unstated needs to be expounded upon, or clarified.

From my experience it is hard to see anything from inside a cabin while traveling at night. That bolded statement is a premise.Sometimes it is difficult to even see other boat lights. And it is not always practical to navigate outside of an enclosure. On my last trip I used a SiOnyx Aurora camera clamped to a bow rail. This camera connects to a tablet or laptop via wifi so the camera view is displayed on the remote device allowing you to see what is outside while remaining inside. The camera is not infrared but uses available light to illuminate objects. That means when it was a moonless night the image, which is like watching a video, would be very grainy/static. I could still see the horizon but barely. However, even then any light would clearly be visible - I was seeing boat lights showing up on the horizon (see still image). But when there was some moonlight the image was very clear. I had to change the battery every 1.5 hours and the one spare battery would recharge within that amount of time.

The other images posted are in Portsmouth, Dominica at midnight taken with a cell phone and then with the Aurora camera. The sailboat was about 40 yards away. The boat on the left in the last image did not have a light and was not visible with the naked eye at about 120 yards away.

For me the camera was well worth the price just by reducing the discomfort level with traveling at night. If you plan to buy wait until holidays, etc. and they will usually have discounts.

[skenn_ie]

I think the point is, use tech to augment, not as a substitute for eyes and ears lookout. In this part of the world, Spanish trawlers are known for being set on autopilot, then everyone goes to sleep. Artificial Intelligence is getting close to being able to recognise a vessel, at any time of the day or night, and alert the watch person. That would allow lone sailors to be able to sleep properly for 15mins at a time, rather than doing it with one eye/ear open. Again though, it should be a backup, not the primary system.

[john61ct]

Posts #1 & #17 make it very clear OP was talking about using this tech in order to be more comfortable, by **avoiding the need to go outside**.

Yes other people are saying fine to use the tech to supplement keeping a proper watch, but the OP is saying how great it is to be able to stay inside the cabin.

And the rightly indignant censuring comments were completely appropriate, if anything IMO much too polite, not strong enough.

Mollycoddling people's feelings is really a trivial goal, compared to stating in no uncertain terms that

such practices are unsafe, thus rightly illegal and completely unacceptable.

[Togreenfeet]

Originally Posted by stormalong

You are obligated to look around all 360 degrees, not just forward. This sounds like a way to become complacent. Hazards don't always come from the bow.

It might not be practical to leave the cabin for a good look around but it is essential for safety.

I like this comment. Well said. Maybe get yourself a pair of Gen 3, Night vision goggles. They are affordable nowadays.

[jkleins]

What is the deal with “going outside” Many boat are set up to have pilothouses or doghouses where you can see 360 degrees without leaving the enclosure. Most long range trawlers and motorsailers are setup this way. I can see all around my boat and I certainly am not going out in the weather just to be “on deck” for some reason. I have seen several trawlers that have a blind spot in a certain field of view that had a camera to augment that view for the pilot.
I actually like the concept of the camera and can see it could be very useful in that it enhances your view at night. Certainly more useful then me going outside to look around a perfectly good window.

The OP just said sometimes “it was not always practical to navigate outside an enclosure”. This suggests he might have a dodger with bimini and sides sort of enclosure. He never suggested that he couldn’t look behind him as well as looking at the enhanced image of what is ahead. Why did so many assume that was his only view?

I do see how the layout of some boats make getting “out” a necessity. I don’t see why posters here have to assume everyone has one of those boats.

I actually feel the ability to navigate from the pilot house is a safety feature in inclement weather. Being out in the rain can be very tiring making keeping a vigilant watch just that much harder.

Just my $.02

Jim

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Posts #1 & #17 make it very clear OP was talking about using this tech in order to be more comfortable, by **avoiding the need to go outside**.

Yes other people are saying fine to use the tech to supplement keeping a proper watch, but the OP is saying how great it is to be able to stay inside the cabin.

And the rightly indignant censuring comments were completely appropriate, if anything IMO much too polite, not strong enough.

Mollycoddling people's feelings is really a trivial goal, compared to stating in no uncertain terms that

such practices are unsafe, thus rightly illegal and completely unacceptable.

The very fact that you continue to waffle on about the legalities of the issue highlights the fact you have no idea what your talking about, i've asked you to put up the laws on this issue and you have repeatedly ignored the request.........so i ask (demand) again, post up these laws that you claim are been broken so that everyone can benefit from your vast knowledge on the subject and be educated......

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

The very fact that you continue to waffle on about the legalities of the issue highlights the fact you have no idea what your talking about, i've asked you to put up the laws on this issue and you have repeatedly ignored the request.........so i ask (demand) again, post up these laws that you claim are been broken so that everyone can benefit from your vast knowledge on the subject and be educated......

As to legalities, at least as to USA waters the USCG published guidance would be relevant. Taken from an earlier post.

"When do I need a Look-out?"

"According to Rule 5, all vessels are responsible for maintaining a proper look-out at all times - this includes one-man crews, unmanned crafts, and recreational boats."

"The term look-out implies watching and listening so that he/she is aware of what is happening around the vessel. The emphasis is on performing the action, not on the person. Still, in all but the smallest vessels, the lookout is expected to be an individual who is not the helmsman and is usually located in the forward part of the boat, away from the distractions and noises of the bridge. While no specific location on a vessel is prescribed for the lookout, good navigation requires placement at the point best suited for the purpose of hearing and observing the approach of objects likely to be brought into collision with the vessel."

"The size of the vessel and crew effect this answer, however, the emphasis in every legal court decision points to the need for a proper, attentive look-out. While the use of radar to evaluate the situation is implied in the requirement to use all available means, that is still understood to be secondary to maintaining a look-out by sight and hearing."


And seemingly likewise as to the use of cameras [night or day vision] to aid in evaluating the situation, for example, utilizing enhanced low light vision would be implied in the requirement to use ALL AVAILABLE MEANS, yet that is also still understood to be secondary to maintaining a look-out by sight and hearing.

So just like having radar or AIS, if you have awareness augmenting instrumentation and it is functional you are supposed to use such, ditto for the use of cameras and binoculars, or hearing aids if you are hard of hearing, or even utilizing the new glasses that aid the colorblind persons being able to clearly discern red from green, i.e., port from starboard light signals, or red over green sailing machine light signals, or the color of lateral markers, etc.. but such aids are secondary to using MK2 [eyes] and ears.

[Red Sky]

“I was keeping watch on my iPad, but I fell asleep”. Are juries permitted to laugh?

[CaptWho]

Originally Posted by UFO

I hope their product is better than the god awful cheesy advert that had made for it!

For $8,000 - $9,000, it had better be good.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by Montanan

As to legalities, at least as to USA waters the USCG published guidance would be relevant. Taken from an earlier post.........

Thanks for that, and without trying to be a smartarse i'm well aware of the info you posted........

What i want posted is this mythical/fairytale law that states an individual or individuals are guilty of an offense for not going outside of the wheelhouse/bridge/cockpit for a looksee.....

[Pizzazz]

We all know that we should not exceed the speed limit on the road, yet often traffic moves at 5-10% above the posted limit. So we are all breaking the law every day. Some folks have never exceeded the speed limit in their lives. May be 5% of the population. For some reason, these people are 50% of this forum’s audience. Back to sailing anarchy, I guess.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by IslandHopper

Thanks for that, and without trying to be a smartarse i'm well aware of the info you posted........

What i want posted is this mythical/fairytale law that states an individual or individuals are guilty of an offense for not going outside of the wheelhouse/bridge/cockpit for a looksee.....

[Red Sky]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

We all know that we should not exceed the speed limit on the road, yet often traffic moves at 5-10% above the posted limit. So we are all breaking the law every day. Some folks have never exceeded the speed limit in their lives. May be 5% of the population. For some reason, these people are 50% of this forum’s audience. Back to sailing anarchy, I guess.

Add a bandana tied around your eyes with the only way to see is to tilt your head way back, and earplugs.

[kevinjilliana]

Am I missing something here or can we now send our boats to sea without people?
Does the camera revolve 360 degrees? Stay dry and safe???