Charlie's Charts

[FastCruiser]

Over the years, Myself as well as many others here, have relied on "Charlies Charts for the little tid-bits and know-hows for travel along the coast lines.
But recently The company has changed hands, and I say recently as the last few years and some things have changed..
And one of them I'm not really happy with, enough so that after reading the first couple of pages, I tossed the booklet in the dumpster and have vowed to never purchase another item from them.
And I'll explain,
After being on the water for a couple years (if that long) you start to believe in other powers higher than yourself, and the ways you conduct yourself, even to the point of putting a coil in lines, making steps in a prescribed way, or following a pattern in the actions you do. and not only because of the fact that it works but because , the fact is, It Works, and you dont want to mess things up, be it Karma or proper working conditions.
So back to Charlie's Charts,
And I read to you from the third page along with acknowledgements, it has a piece labeled KARMA and decribes somewhat of the above paragraph but in the last part it states,
"However, copying these guides and selling or giving them away is BAD KARMA. You dont need any BAD KARMA, you need good karma. We will be happy to mail a brand new copy anywhere in the world, so just pass along our web information and build up some more good karma for yourself and others while you help us keep the presses rolling here at home".
Now in my life there are a couple items I dont mind passing on to a fellow cruiser along my travels, and one being my used charts,
So In my book, these new owners have stepped over the line wishing BAD KARMA on myself due to my GOOD WILL to others.
I'll leave it in your hands to make a decision on which way you'll treat the case but as I said, you can find my new issue of Charlie's Charts in the dumpster.

Randy Garrett
S/V - R3
SailingOnR3.com

[autumnbreeze27]

I believe you are misinterpreting what is written. It is clearly an anti-piracy appeal. She is asking that you do not copy yours and then sell or give away the copies. If you want to buy them from Holly and give them away, I'm sure she would be ok with that!

Seems like you over-reacted there throwing it in the garbage. When was the last time you got your boat out of the slip? You seem to be wound up pretty tight.

Disclaimer: I know Holly Scott personally and have never heard anybody say anything bad about her or how she runs her business.

[FastCruiser]

Originally Posted by autumnbreeze27

I believe you are misinterpreting what is written. It is clearly an anti-piracy appeal. She is asking that you do not copy yours and then sell or give away the copies. If you want to buy them from Holly and give them away, I'm sure she would be ok with that!

Seems like you over-reacted there throwing it in the garbage. When was the last time you got your boat out of the slip? You seem to be wound up pretty tight.

Disclaimer: I know Holly Scott personally and have never heard anybody say anything bad about her or how she runs her business.

Even bringing up bad karma is a no-no in my book and we're persently on the water headed for Mexico, without Charlies Charts............

[zeehag]

dont want to use charlies charts?? i think holly wont argue. you are the only one losing out. charlies charts are excellent .

i give my copies i no longer need to other cruisers. i have fine karma.
no one can wish ye bad karma or good karma..
i laugh at the trepidation exhibited.
do not pirate.
go out have fun despite yourself. chartbooks get shared or sold for coconuts in strange places.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by FastCruiser

Even bringing up bad karma is a no-no in my book and we're persently on the water headed for Mexico, without Charlies Charts............

I 100% agree with autumnbreeze27. The request was clearly asking people not to make copies to sell or give away.

The mention of bad karma to those that do so doesn't bother me in the least. In fact I would join in wishing bad karma to those who copied and disseminated the charts.

[hellosailor]

Randy, I've got to agree. The quote is badly written and not so obviously, it should have said "Please don't sell or give away COPIES of our charts." That is indeed copyright theft, and bad karma, even if it is convenient. Authors probably would all say that. I've seen computer shareware, inexpensively priced, where 1 out of 1000 downloads were paid for. And the other 999 people didn't pay a cent, because they were on the honor system and had none.


I hope their cartography is better than their copywriting. Tell them that, and also do tell them it is incredibly dangerous karma to try self-publishing anything without a fact checker, a proofreader, and a copy editor. Just for a start!


Self-published Amazon Kindle e-books: Proof that monkeys with typewriters can and will pound out Shakespeare.(G)

[autumnbreeze27]

Originally Posted by FastCruiser

Even bringing up bad karma is a no-no in my book and we're persently on the water headed for Mexico, without Charlies Charts............

Yet you bring up bad karma... your logic defies me. Glad to hear you're on the water. We're a fan of Charlie's Charts, so we'll just have to agree to disagree on that front. Fair winds and following seas.

[Tayana42]

Charlie's Charts are terrific cruising guides. I highly recommend them to any one with a boat or thinking about a boat. I have and use both the Pacific Coast of U.S. and the West Coast of Mexico. Great detail, accurate information, easy to use.

Furthermore, Holly Scott, one of the two women who purchased Charlie's Charts is a wonderful person. She is a knowledgable and experienced captain, great teacher and genuinely "nice guy." She and her partner in Charlie's Charts are not a wealthy publishing company. They are two sailors who are asking gently and with a sense of humor that you not steal from them by copying and giving away their guides.


S/V B'Shert

[Capt.Don]

"And" has precedence over "Or". I agree with Randy that the way it is written, giving them away is bad karma.

Having said that, I have older Charlies Charts that were given to me and we used them exclusively compared to the other cruising guides. I had others onboard and we kept going back to Charlies Charts. I only wish they had GPS lat/lon references for the approaches and preferred anchorages.

[Tayana42]

Originally Posted by Capt.Don

"And" has precedence over "Or". I agree with Randy that the way it is written, giving them away is bad karma.

Having said that, I have older Charlies Charts that were given to me and we used them exclusively compared to the other cruising guides. I had others onboard and we kept going back to Charlies Charts. I only wish they had GPS lat/lon references for the approaches and preferred anchorages.

To be clear, the newer ones have waypoint references for approaches with accurate GPS lat/lon data.


S/V B'Shert

[karle]

If you are in US, you can re-sell your legally purchased maps/charts. These are protected by First sale doctrine. This has been tested umpteen times in the Supreme court.

First-sale doctrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by FastCruiser

Even bringing up bad karma is a no-no in my book...

First, I have to admit that I find it pretty funny that anyone would get so worked up about the mention of "bad karma." Then, I find it REALLY funny that--feeling this way--you would create a new thread for the specific purpose of discussing bad karma, which you have now brought up FOUR TIMES in this thread! Of course, two of those times were when quoting someone else, but you're still the one who is bringing it up here.

So, all in all, an odd and confusing thread, but very amusing nonetheless.

(Oh, by the way... Were I the owner of Charlie's Charts, I would put this whole thread in the category of "any publicity is good publicity." My guess is that they'll see a small bump in sales as a result of this. I, for one, had never even heard of them, so thanks for that!)

[DefinitelyMe]

Just looked up 'charlie's charts'. Looks like they do some good stuff!

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by karle

If you are in US, you can re-sell your legally purchased maps/charts. These are protected by First sale doctrine. This has been tested umpteen times in the Supreme court.

First-sale doctrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But the question here is about making copies of those charts to sell or give away which to the best of my knowledge, is not legal. Making copies for personal backup, at least in some circumstances is allowed.

[FastCruiser]

Originally Posted by skipmac

But the question here is about making copies of those charts to sell or give away which to the best of my knowledge, is not legal. Making copies for personal backup, at least in some circumstances is allowed.

No, you are wrong Skip, this is a question of giving the chart book away, and not copies of the chart book.. read it again. its the way its written that leads you to believe its the chart book.
we all know its not proper to make copies, its the fact that its referring to the chart book itself..And furthermore, it doesn't say to give them yours but instead give them the web address and let them buy their own.