Are Speed Logs and Wind Speed Instruments Obsolete?

[Neptune's Gear]

As someone who makes a living from marine electronics, let me say this.
All the instrumentation in the world won't make an incompetent sailor competent, but it WILL make a competent sailor better.
And accurate or not, a speed increase is just that, and a degree or two closer to the wind is a lot over any sort of distance. Instruments are just a source of better/different data to your other senses, not the single answer.
calibrate your instruments! its not hard to do, and gives better information again.

[s/v Jedi]

If it is a choice like the OP explains, then sure, I see the charm in that and we agree on everything.

That said, I see other people posting that they can do without wind instruments because they can tell the windspeed from the sea or how the boat reacts. Sure, I can do that as well, with my eyes closed if need be. But that does not make my autopilot steer the boat at a set wind angle. It also does not set off the alarm that it is time to reef. I feel like these posters don't realize everything that these sensors are used for.

Same for VMG... it needs these non-GPS sensors as well. If I sail upwind and tack after every so many hours because that's how they did it in the old days, then I spend equal time on each tack while one tack can easily be twice as fast as the other. That starts to matter when the upwind sail takes 2 days but three for you because you don't have the data. Except when you want to have the three days like the OP explains

This also means GPS should be done away with then, because the ancestors didn't have that either. You really don't need it. My first crossings were a compass heading and outline-drawings of shore lines so you could recognize where you end up. Everybody did that, we all arrived safely Now I feel old

[Astrid]

This also means GPS should be done away with then, because the ancestors didn't have that either. You really don't need it. My first crossings were a compass heading and outline-drawings of shore lines so you could recognize where you end up. Everybody did that, we all arrived safely Now I feel old
I like the way Jedi put this. As a pilot I can look back on the development of flight instrumentation. Taking as an example, the Fokker DVII on display at the Smithsonian--the instruments the pilot had were fuel pressure gauges for the main and reserve fuel tanks to let him know if there was a drop in fuel pressure (if the engine pump was not running efficiently, he would have to use a hand pump to keep fuel pressure at a safe level), an altimeter so he could manually adjust the air/fuel mixture of the carburetor, and a magnetic compass so he could keep to a desired heading. These were largely just barely enough for him to get into the air, more or less safely. What he did not have were fuel level gauges--he had to rely on his watch or stop watch to know how long he had been in the air and compare that with the maximum endurance of his plane; he did not have an airspeed indicator--he used land marks and a map and used distance from landmark to landmark and his watch to figure out his airspeed; he had no turn and bank indicator and had to rely on keeping his wings more or less level by comparing them to the horizon; he had not coolant or oil temperature gauges--he would have to learn by trial and error how much throttle could be used before he ran the risk of engine overheat; there were no fuel flow gauges to help him set the throttle to the most efficient rpm.
All the instruments he did not have and are now taken for granted came about because pilots wanted more and safer ways of managing their aircraft. Industry was not simply coming out with new technology just to make money, they were heeding the demands of the flying community--both military and civil, which realized that flying by guess and by gosh was not particularly safe.
The development of navigation and sailing aids for boats and ships was really not so different. All of the instrumentation and sailing aids we have today are because the old timers of the past were not satisfied with what they had and were either developing more efficient aids themselves or asking industry to find better ways of helping mariners to more safely and efficiently manage their vessels. Step by step better systems evolved to meet the demands of sailors.
New sailors today often take a look at all the modern aids and instruments and think, 'I don't need all this modern stuff. What was good enough for the old timers is good enough for me.' and that is just wrong! What the old timers had was not good enough for them, they knew it, and they wanted better 'stuff'.
Farther back in this thread, someone mentioned Slocum and Francis Chichester. They both solo circumnavigated the globe, albiet a generation apart and with different navigational aids, but Slocum took an absolute minimalist approach to navigating, not even using state of the art aids of his time, while Chichester used what was available in his day. They both accomplished what they set out to do, but that does not make Slocum the better sailor--I realize this may be heresy to those who admire Slocum, but it is worthwhile to point out Slocum never returned from his last voyage while Chichester did and lived to die at home.
Personally, I advocate having a working knowlege of how to navigate with old timer's methods and instruments both as something that can be fun but also as a back up if things go south on your boat on a long voyage. Like flying instruments today, marine navigational instruments--chart plotters, GPS, wind gauges, etc. improve the efficiency of your vessel management.

[rognvald]

"I realize this may be heresy to those who admire Slocum, but it is worthwhile to point out Slocum never returned from his last voyage while Chichester did and lived to die at home." Astrid


Astrid, this is certainly a leap of faith and a unvalidated statement that even History cannot confirm to say/infer that Slocum never returned due to his lack of navigational instruments. There are numerous possible scenarios that would have equal credence that could have contributed to Slocum's demise as well as one of today's well-equipped "spaceship cruisers": rogue wave, collision with a whale/flotsam/jetson, severe lightning strike, untenable sea conditions, suicide, etc.(Remember when Webb Chiles scuttled his boat in the GOM in an attempted suicide?) And, as we all know, Slocum's death is still a mystery. But, once again, the original question asked in this discussion was: "Are Speed Logs and Wind Speed Instruments Obsolete?" The inference is that with the advent of GPS, the tried and true use of a marine sextant and competent navigational skills, perhaps these two instruments are, in fact, obsolete. I do not advocate sailing without "necessary" instruments, but rather re-analyzing what is really important when one fits a boat for sailing. As I have stated previously, I sail with a Chartplotter, depth gauge, marine sextant, compass and a complement of navigational tools, charts, and books. And, in my opinion, I have neither missed, nor needed, nor used a speed log/windspeed to sail safely, and confidently.
Finally, there is a remarkable sailor, writer and adventurer among us who has made some prodigious journeys in a 24-foot junk-rigged Corribee that he customized for offshore sailing. His name is Roger Taylor and his website is: <head> <title>Introduction to the junk-rigged Corribee Mingming I highly recommend it. Lykke til og trygt seiling. Captain Rognvald

[Astrid]

Halló Ragnvald!

I realize Slocum's disappearance is still unsolved and will likely remain so after the passage of 117 years since he was last heard from, and that any one of the situations you listed might have been the cause and not necessarily lack of instrumentation. Maritime historian and naval architect Howard I Chapella put forth a theory years later that Slocums boat, Spray, might have been at fault. Stable under most conditions, Spray, he felt, lacked the ability to right itself beyond a relatively shallow amount of heel and might have capsized unexpectedly if subjected to a wind gust or veering wind with too much sail set particularly if Slocum was not at the helm to compensate for a suddenly changing condition. Chapella was surprised the quirky boat had not killed Slocum sooner (if indeed that was the case).

Anyway, my main point was that Slocum may or may not have used all navigational aids available to him in his day, but in any event was actively sailing at a time when things we take for granted today were not around. He couldn't even call for assistance if things went south on him. Sailing was a much more dangerous enterprise in his day than what we face now, just as flying a Fokker DVII in 1918 would be considered suicidal now due to substandard instrumentation (most WW1 type aircraft flying now are replicas, but must have at least the minimum instruments deemed necessary by Transport Canada or the FAA to be certified). A lot of experienced modern pilots have gotten into trouble when flying some of these old timers. We sailors can be happy that we are not so nearly regulated as aviators are.

Getting back to the question of wind gauges and speed logs being obsolete (including towed log line and hour glass, taffrail type, or electronic)--I personally don't think they are; if they can allow you to more accurately trim sails to give you an extra half knot or knot of speed, you are that much more ahead of the game. If you are just out cruising about and don't particularly care how fast you get to your destination, then they might be classified as impedimenta which you could probably do without.

Like you, I am all for knowing how to use the tried and true methods, but there are times when a certain amount of fatigue or laziness takes over and the more modern do-dads are quite nice to have around as compensation for when my mind no longer wants to function clearly.

Gangi þér vel og öruggur siglingar

Ásta

[rognvald]

"Gangi þér vel og öruggur siglingar"

Ásta


I' anda forfedra okkar!

Rognvald

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by rognvald

"Gangi þér vel og öruggur siglingar"

Ásta


I' anda forfedra okkar!

Rognvald

My apologies to all. There was no attempt to be enigmatic/cryptic in the above two quotes. Roughly translated, the first statement reads: "Good sailing and navigating" while the second quote(mine) means "In the spirit of our ancestors." Of course, I couldn't resist a double-entendre referring to the the literal meaning of good sailing and navigation in the spirit of the Vikings, but also, the ironic double entendre in the "spirit of the Vikings" who of course, did not have an electronic speed logs or wind instrumentation and managed to be the first mariners to cross the North Atlantic and discover North America. Good luck and safe sailing.

[AKA-None]

Some crossed the Atlantic just like some Polynesians did. Some just went off and never came home. I have and use both, do I need them? No but I find them handy.

[44'cruisingcat]

Obsolete means no longer produced or used.

Speed logs and wind instruments are not obsolete.

[sailorboy1]

I havent had a working wind gauge or speed log for the past 6+ yeas and they never make into a the "A" group of things needed on the boat. Thy don't tell anything that I can not already tell by other means.

[AKA-None]

How do you tell current without a log?

[Don C L]

I took my new hand-held anemometer out today to see how it works. My cheek said the breeze was five knots. The anemometer said 5.4 knots. I have got to calibrate my cheeks!

[OzDean]

Interesting Question for me as I was about to replace the masthead anemometer/angle fitting after it has been broken again. Yes I could live without direct wind speed/direction observation for sailing in daylight but not during the night and for use with autopilot. Now after looking at the Maretron WSO100 ultrasonic wind/weather sensor (thanks s/v Jedi for bringing this option to my attention), I think I could get by with that.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

How do you tell current without a log?

If you know your boat it is pretty easy to estimate speed through the water to half a knot or so. Also the sea state, set and drift from GPS and landmarks all help. Crude but reasonably effective in conjunction with a gps giving SOG and COG.

[44'cruisingcat]

I guess I don't know my boat then. Sometimes when we slow down to eight knots it feels like we've stopped. Other times when the wind's been light, eight knots feels like we're really moving.