Well Done Rocna

[JonJo]

evm,

I'm with you on this.

I am further disappointed that many people when they see this thread say 'boring', 'let it alone', 'not again'

The suggestion to me is that people think its quite all right to do as Rocna has and is doing. Its quite acceptable to leave 2,000 unacceptable and potentially dangerous items in the market place without any serious attempt at having them removed.

The fact its a safety items should not make a difference.

CMP made all the correct noises, they issued some lovely statements nad have arranged some marvellous interviews, resulting in glowing articles. It might be unfair, but taking a leaf out of CMP's book (on unfairness) I wonder what happens if they discover bad batches of chain have hit the chandlers. If you can get away with it once why not again, if you can get away with it why not others.

Its our industry, its our pastime, we will get the suppliers we deserve.


If CMP had addressed this issue head on this thread would not need to exist. We would hold CMP in some regard. As long as threads like this do exist their sales will always suffer.

[Mate]

I personally stopped reading the rubbish in this thread .
Why not just let some credit due

Sincere apologies to Rocna , my intentions were only good.

Some people will never be happy unless they can winge or run something down. Now that bores me.

[micah719]

A recent link from one of these anchor threads lead me to an article about how little the anchor actually does in opposing the forces on a boat....all that energy has to be converted to heat or motion other than the boat moving off the intended location, and the anchor can't do much of that without either dragging or failing. So it has to be the rode, or the boat engaging in non-dragging type motion. The internal heat damage to wet nylon seems to be caused by all that energy, and the shock at the boat of snubbing.

Sit down and brace yourself...another micah-idea semi-plagiarised from somewhere; How about a chain leader or even a kellet at the anchor to keep the rode parallel as possible....with a light submerged float some distance back, followed by another kellet, and another float, etc....kind of like the Jordan series drogue approach only for anchoring. That way the whole rode would take a vertical zigzag through the water to the roller, and the boat could bleed off some serious wind/current energy by forcing the floats to sink & the kellets to rise in the effort of straightening the rode, rather than the more limited effect of merely straightening a caternary. Also would offset the snubbing shock of pure chain rode. Probably a pain in the nether regions to haul in, having to detach all those extra bits....but perhaps worth it for a secure anchor especially when you know you're in for a storm, and more opportunity to clean the rode and check for wear. What do the experienced hands say?

[avb3]

Originally Posted by micah719

A recent link from one of these anchor threads lead me to an article about how little the anchor actually does in opposing the forces on a boat....all that energy has to be converted to heat or motion other than the boat moving off the intended location, and the anchor can't do much of that without either dragging or failing. So it has to be the rode, or the boat engaging in non-dragging type motion. The internal heat damage to wet nylon seems to be caused by all that energy, and the shock at the boat of snubbing.

Sit down and brace yourself...another micah-idea semi-plagiarised from somewhere; How about a chain leader or even a kellet at the anchor to keep the rode parallel as possible....with a light submerged float some distance back, followed by another kellet, and another float, etc....kind of like the Jordan series drogue approach only for anchoring. That way the whole rode would take a vertical zigzag through the water to the roller, and the boat could bleed off some serious wind/current energy by forcing the floats to sink & the kellets to rise in the effort of straightening the rode, rather than the more limited effect of merely straightening a caternary. Also would offset the snubbing shock of pure chain rode. Probably a pain in the nether regions to haul in, having to detach all those extra bits....but perhaps worth it for a secure anchor especially when you know you're in for a storm, and more opportunity to clean the rode and check for wear. What do the experienced hands say?

Why don't you test it out and tell us how it worked.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Mate

I personally stopped reading the rubbish in this thread .
Why not just let some credit due

Sincere apologies to Rocna , my intentions were only good.

Some people will never be happy unless they can winge or run something down. Now that bores me.

Seeing CMP has not lived up to the expectations they themselves created, perhaps you can understand that there is significant skepticism out there that Rocna really has rejuvenated itself.

[micah719]

Originally Posted by avb3

Why don't you test it out and tell us how it worked.

Will do, along with many other cunning plans, once I get onto a suitable patch of water.

At the moment my only option is sailing the S/V Palmolive around the well-forested slopes of the twin headlands of Knobbly Knee in the Sea of Bath, trying to avoid the rumoured subsurface volcanic eruptions in the vicinity that apparently can asphyxiate crews.

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by Mate

I personally stopped reading the rubbish in this thread .
Why not just let some credit due

Sincere apologies to Rocna , my intentions were only good.

Some people will never be happy unless they can winge or run something down. Now that bores me.

Actually it was Rocna who ran their own product down. You, yourself, do seem to be whingeing


There is, or was, the idea that people at sea helped each?

I'm all right Jack and ignoring, or allowing Rocna to ignore, those not in the know (with a specific and unambigous statement), does seem at best unsympathetic.

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by micah719

A recent link from one of these anchor threads lead me to an article about how little the anchor actually does in opposing the forces on a boat....all that energy has to be converted to heat or motion other than the boat moving off the intended location, and the anchor can't do much of that without either dragging or failing. So it has to be the rode, or the boat engaging in non-dragging type motion. The internal heat damage to wet nylon seems to be caused by all that energy, and the shock at the boat of snubbing.

Sit down and brace yourself...another micah-idea semi-plagiarised from somewhere; How about a chain leader or even a kellet at the anchor to keep the rode parallel as possible....with a light submerged float some distance back, followed by another kellet, and another float, etc....kind of like the Jordan series drogue approach only for anchoring. That way the whole rode would take a vertical zigzag through the water to the roller, and the boat could bleed off some serious wind/current energy by forcing the floats to sink & the kellets to rise in the effort of straightening the rode, rather than the more limited effect of merely straightening a caternary. Also would offset the snubbing shock of pure chain rode. Probably a pain in the nether regions to haul in, having to detach all those extra bits....but perhaps worth it for a secure anchor especially when you know you're in for a storm, and more opportunity to clean the rode and check for wear. What do the experienced hands say?

Why not just use a heavy duty bungee? I'd try it but for the life of me cannot find anything 'man' enough - and maybe that's why its not used.

[micah719]

The use of nylon snubbers on chain rodes seems an attempt in the right direction, though I've personally seen some where the splice was in dire need of attention. No idea what was going in inside the line, perobably nothing nice.

I was thinking of other methods....one that seems to have appeal is a car's or light truck's coil spring and an all chain snubber as well...shock loads absorbed by the spring, and the danger of chafe should be less. Ok, rust to be expected on that alloy steel, but over here they throw salt on the roads half the year and rusted out springs don't seem to be all that much of a problem. The SS spring I saw in a picture on the mooring line thread suggested it isn't too far out to be impossible. Rubber bungee is in the same pic too, but I prefer steel.

As avb3 said, I'd be better served by shutting up until I had concrete (or steel, haha, er hm) results to show the gallery. But I like to bounce my hairbrained ideas off the salt encruisted skins of folks with a whole lot more seatime than me. Might save trouble later....and who knows, my brainfarts might help someone else, or at least the shootdowns might stop someone else going down the wrong path behind me. I'm arranging access to the largest body of water in practicable distance....40 hectares of max 3.5m depth artificial lake, with some little dinky sailers and motorboats on it, and prevailing winds less than I can generate from either end. Better than the bath, though simulating some of my wacky ideas will be hard.

[JonJo]

We do not have 'the' answer but all chain rode with a deck length snubber, attached to the aft cleat(s), is as good as we have found. We have 'hollow' stanchion bases and run the line through that, hose pipe at any points of, possible, wear. For a monohull run through a fairlead to a chain hook just forward of the bow roller but because we have 2 hulls we run through turning blocks on the bow to a common chain hook. With about 13m each side we have a fair bit of elasticity and one could engender more if you used thinner line (but it will not last so long). So line thickness, compromise, life and elasticity. On a multi (and you could do the same on a beefy mono) we find one 'side' or the other takes the load its seldom the yacht is in a perfect line with the chain and anchor. This is an application for old sheets, or halyards (but forget Dyneema etc, no give.) Basically none of the nylon is in the water, it extends beyond the bow less than freeboard.

As I say, love to try bungee and am interested in steel springs - so go for it! Branded product Shockles suggest they have an anchor bungee, but it costs an arm and a leg - which is a bit high for a product with no reputation. I've seen steel springs on mooring lines, so the idea has support. I've equally seen rubber snubbers on mooring lines, but anchor loads are that little bit higher.

[bobconnie]

Ive always just used 3 strand nylon for a snubber, running from the aft spring cleats. Its worked for a lot of years I guess some of the new things are great!, but they cost a lot of money for something I can make up out of left over line and a little time and effort !! But then Im a cheap old dude LOL just my 2 cents

[JonJo]

Does not sound cheap to me, seems as if you were well ahead of your time and got into recycling early. Certainly cannot think why finding a new and sensible use for something others might throw away makes you cheap. We use double braid nylon, old halyards etc.

[bobconnie]

We never thought of it as conservation or recycleing !! LOL we just thought of saving money so we could cruise a little longer !!

[JonJo]

I know, I was brought up with the idea, I'm from Scotland. Its nothing to do with being 'mean' - its the idea of 'waste not want not' that other people cannot get their heads round.

[micah719]

The DIY scrounger and dual use approach appeals to me....it's all I can afford.

I won't patent any of my ideas, even the ones that might work. Also, I'll draw inspiration from whoever and whatever, but I won't rob someone to make a profit, or come even close.

The steel spring idea will have to wait until I can get on a seriously heavy boat in seriously heavy weather, before I would recommend it for someone else to do.

The submergzigzag anchor rode might be doable, as a simulation for test purposes, on that puddle of water they call a lake, hereabouts. It's on my list, when I have data and results, I'll post them. It would only be an unusual technique anyway....too much monkeying around for regular anchoring. The bits to do it wouldn't be worth anyone buying, as it could be done with common items. If someone does it anyway and feels they absolutely have to shower someone wth cash, I'll put up a token resistance and then fold like a wet newspaper, so be warned.

JonJo: you find good result from aft anchoring on a cat? That's interesting, thought that was just for the monos....do tell.