Is 5/16" BBB Large Enough?

[JRM]

Originally Posted by scoobert

you posted a link to a forum discussion.....

Heh. I love you man. Trolling genius.

Our boat is 14 tons if you believe the travelift. Big Delta up front, 300 and change feet of 3/8" chain (haven't actually measured it). The chain has a custom PVC fall tube that brings it further aft than the chain locker (which has a spare chain/rode in it) to under the V berth. That's a chunk of weight up front, I don't think I'd really want 1200' of chain. Even if I was willing to get lynched for setting that much scope.

I'm not sure what the max wind was on our last island trip, but it was enough to take the catenary out of 150' of chain set in 25' of water. The nearest bouy said 35k, but the anchorage is known to be a bit of a funnel.

At any rate, it was really nice to sleep better knowing that people much smarter and more experienced than I had figured this whole anchoring thing out. Because the more experience I get, the more I realize I'm not as smart as I think I am. All I have to do is figure out who I trust, and then open my ears and shut my mouth and listen. I was given two ears and one mouth for a reason.

JRM

[gjordan]

Stu, Scoobert had already read and posted on the Pardys anchor system thread, and he ridiculed Eric and Susan Hiscocks anchoring system for their 45 foot boat. I must wonder if Scoobert has sailed 3 1/2 times around the world? ___On a related note, my first cruising boat( Contessa 26) came with 30 fathoms of 5/16 proof coil, and a 25 lb CQR. I cant imagine hanging a 45 foot boat to 5/16 chain. Maybe I am a conservative old fuddy duddy like the Hiscocks, but I always believe that good heavy ground tackle is the best insurance a boat can have. _____Grant.

[Weyalan]

I'll add my vote to the "Chain too small, anchor too light" brigade.
45 pounds is about right for us (40' maybe 8 ton)
5/16" is about right for us, but I'm considering going with 3/8"

Carry 2 anchors if you are expecting to set one.

[Target9000]

Originally Posted by gjordan

Stu, Scoobert had already read and posted on the Pardys anchor system thread, and he ridiculed Eric and Susan Hiscocks anchoring system for their 45 foot boat. I must wonder if Scoobert has sailed 3 1/2 times around the world? ___On a related note, my first cruising boat( Contessa 26) came with 30 fathoms of 5/16 proof coil, and a 25 lb CQR. I cant imagine hanging a 45 foot boat to 5/16 chain. Maybe I am a conservative old fuddy duddy like the Hiscocks, but I always believe that good heavy ground tackle is the best insurance a boat can have. _____Grant.

He also said he knew a thing or two about LED technology and proceeded to bash Bebi lights when half the danged forum is saying they're great and that they are the brightest in the anchorages. Personally, I think the Hiscocks may be a more solid party to take advice from.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by gjordan

Stu, Scoobert had already read and posted on the Pardys anchor system thread, and he ridiculed Eric and Susan Hiscocks anchoring system for their 45 foot boat. I must wonder if Scoobert has sailed 3 1/2 times around the world?.

Grant, thanks for noting that. I try to help him, I really do, buty he's one of those guys who knows it all without ever having been there, or anywhere...Thanks for your input.

[Kenomac]

Scoobert,

Me thinks the reason that you still have confidence in your undersized chain and plow style anchor setup is that youv'e never actually snorkeled over a crowded anchorage the day after the wind blew over 20 knots and seen first hand the deperate claw markings across the ocean bottom made by the dragging anchors the day before. Nor have you ever actually seen first hand the desperate look on other boaters faces as their boats drag towards the rocky shore on a windy day.

Sailorchic is using basically similar ground tackle for her 8 ton boat as you plan to use for your 18 ton boat. Your boat weighs 20,000 pounds more! Your plan will work 80% of the time.... right up until the wind blows a little harder and the waves get substantially bigger and more frequent. Not every anchorage is calm and protected, sometimes we find ourself anchoring off a beach just outside the surf.

But hey, do what you want to do... but you better have a change of undershorts standing by for when the wind picks up using your setup.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by Target9000

He also said he knew a thing or two about LED technology and proceeded to bash Bebi lights when half the danged forum is saying they're great and that they are the brightest in the anchorages. Personally, I think the Hiscocks may be a more solid party to take advice from.

seeing as how this is my own thread, let me go a step farther.
those lights are the biggest pile of horse dung i have ever seen.
i could make one with $10 and a trip to radioshack, and ace.
selling something like that, is like selling flares made out of pocket matches.
sure it works, looks ok, but when it fails....
and they look like horse dung too.
great product for a $10,000 boat.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by Weyalan

I'll add my vote to the "Chain too small, anchor too light" brigade.
45 pounds is about right for us (40' maybe 8 ton)
5/16" is about right for us, but I'm considering going with 3/8"

Carry 2 anchors if you are expecting to set one.

i will be.
a 45QCR and a danforth.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by scoobert

i do not really see a big difference between a QCR and an ultra.
same holding principle. dig deep, use the weight of the substrate to dig more.
once set, they are not coming out unless your scope is too far off, or you drive over it.
if i was going to do a second anchor, it would be a different design.
i have a traditional for my stern.

That is about like saying I don't see any difference between a VW Beetle and an old 911 Porsche. After all, the principal is the same. They both have 4 cylinder, air-cooled engines.

Originally Posted by scoobert

according to this:
Independent Anchor Performance Testing
the fortress is the way to go.
and what is a fortress, but a alloy danforth.
so i guess my two should be a QCR and a danforth.
i need to try and get 3/8 chain.

The Fortress is certainly a great anchor. I have one. In the right situation I don't think there is anything better.

BUT, they have two problems. One, they don't dig in very well in some grassy or hard bottoms. The biggest problem, they are very poor at resetting if the wind or tide reverses. For your primary you want an anchor that can take a 180 degree wind shift in the middle of the night and reset quickly and reliably.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by gjordan

I must wonder if Scoobert has sailed 3 1/2 times around the world?

no, 200 times. and when i got home i still had opinions.
yes, 1/2" chain will work. same as 3/4" chain. but do you know of any 3/8" chain to break from too much weight on it on a boat?
the anchor will break free before the chain will break,
my question is, and was, has anyone seen a 5/16" chain let go?
i cannot change my gypsy. so i will need a new windlass if i go up in size.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by skipmac

That is about like saying I don't see any difference between a VW Beetle and an old 911 Porsche. After all, the principal is the same. They both have 4 cylinder, air-cooled engines.

wrong example for me :P
they are both beetles.
lol, i miss my viper.

The Fortress is certainly a great anchor. I have one. In the right situation I don't think there is anything better.

BUT, they have two problems. One, they don't dig in very well in some grassy or hard bottoms. The biggest problem, they are very poor at resetting if the wind or tide reverses. For your primary you want an anchor that can take a 180 degree wind shift in the middle of the night and reset quickly and reliably.

i cannot say for 100% sure, but with my stern anchor will i have this issue?
i used it in the river for 30 hours, i held myself 3' from shore without an issue in 2knot current. i woke up where i started.
i plan to upgrade it a bit. right now its only on a 50' rode with 5' of chain.
i would like to do 50' chain, plus a 150' rode.

for the front danforth i would do 200' of 3/8".
i have not decided on weight yet, but i dont see a need to be very heavy with this style anchor, maybe 35#?

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by scoobert

no, 200 times. and when i got home i still had opinions.
yes, 1/2" chain will work. same as 3/4" chain. but do you know of any 3/8" chain to break from too much weight on it on a boat?
the anchor will break free before the chain will break,
my question is, and was, has anyone seen a 5/16" chain let go?
i cannot change my gypsy. so i will need a new windlass if i go up in size.

actually all you have to change is the wildcat sometimes...my PO had 5/16 chain on a 3/8 wildcat...needless to say my first trip with it was an anchoring nightmare...so I bought a new wildcat for around $300.

I have a Vetus windlass and a 3/8 wildcat I'm not using...you may want to ask around if thinking of it if your windlass can take a bigger wildcat.

[scoobert]

other then taking a chain sample to the yacht, is there a way to tell if my gypsy is an 8mm or a 10?

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by scoobert

other then taking a chain sample to the yacht, is there a way to tell if my gypsy is an 8mm or a 10?

I think I saw a comment about a Simpson Lawrence Sea Wolf? If that's what you have look along the rim of the gypsy and you will see a number molded into the steel near the edge. Will be something like 160 or 172 or 170. If you tell me that number I can tell you what size chain fits the gypsy.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I think I saw a comment about a Simpson Lawrence Sea Wolf? If that's what you have look along the rim of the gypsy and you will see a number molded into the steel near the edge. Will be something like 160 or 172 or 170. If you tell me that number I can tell you what size chain fits the gypsy.

ok will do this week.
yes seawolf, 520