How much is too much (anchor and chain)

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

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* For your size boat, I wouldn't go heavier than 35 pounds (unless you go next generation -- they seem to require heavier anchors than the older styles like Bruce, Danforth, or CQR).>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Except for this statement, a nice post. Thanks.

[Uricanejack]

How much money you got in your budget? And what else would you like on your boat?
Go look at the price a one of those fancy new anchors all the anchor experts are telling you to by. The price of new chain and realise you will end up with three anchors. 2 of which will be hard to give away let alone sell.

I have a bigger boat than you. 35ft. not much heavier. I have a 32 Kg Bruce.
Aprox 35 Lbs in American. With only about 5m of chain. and a couple of hundred feet of rope. I anchor routinely. All round the PNW. 5 x depth of rope rode.
It has never dragged.
My main complaint its hard to break out of the mud by hand. I often cant do it now and have to pull it out with the motor or a sheet winch.

You have more chain and are even less likely than me to drag. Than me.
But if you have the money to burn go by a shiny new anchor.

I don't think. You don't need both of them up in the bow. it is a lot of weight. Move The CQR to an aft locker. Or take it off the boat.

I would probably take the chain of the CQR and replace it with a 5 or 10 m of chain and a couple of hundred feet of rope and stow it in the bottom of the anchor locker. or aft locker. JIK I ever needed it. As a kedge.

I am not going to say a new anchor doesn't hold better.
I am saying a Bruce or a CQR holds well enough.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Uricanejack

How much money you got in your budget? And what else would you like on your boat?
Go look at the price a one of those fancy new anchors all the anchor experts are telling you to by. The price of new chain and realise you will end up with three anchors. 2 of which will be hard to give away let alone sell.

I have a bigger boat than you. 35ft. not much heavier. I have a 32 Kg Bruce.
Aprox 35 Lbs in American. With only about 5m of chain. and a couple of hundred feet of rope. I anchor routinely. All round the PNW. 5 x depth of rope rode.
It has never dragged.
My main complaint its hard to break out of the mud by hand. I often cant do it now and have to pull it out with the motor or a sheet winch.

You have more chain and are even less likely than me to drag. Than me.
But if you have the money to burn go by a shiny new anchor.

I don't think. You don't need both of them up in the bow. it is a lot of weight. Move The CQR to an aft locker. Or take it off the boat.

I would probably take the chain of the CQR and replace it with a 5 or 10 m of chain and a couple of hundred feet of rope and stow it in the bottom of the anchor locker. or aft locker. JIK I ever needed it. As a kedge.

I am not going to say a new anchor doesn't hold better.
I am saying a Bruce or a CQR holds well enough.

You must be strong as hell if your 32 Kg Bruce seems like it weighs approx 35 lbs in American!

[kmacdonald]

10' of 1/4" G4 chain and 150' 1/2" rode with a 10 kg Rocna, Mantus, or Manson. Anything will drag in the soft mud of the upper bay in a 180 degree wind shift. Nothing resets reliably when covered in mud.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Except for this statement, a nice post. Thanks.

Stu, you are correct. I swear I thought that the recommended Rocna for my Saber 34 was 45 pounds or so. But I was mistaken, it seems to be 35 pounds, same as my Bruce. Of course, both of them are more than the 22 pounds recommended for a Danforth.

Harry

[TrentePieds]

Not to be picky, but rather as a point of reference: 15 Kg, which is a standard weight of Bruce anchor, translates to 33.6 lbs. Next one up is the 20 Kg job which translates to 44.8 lbs.

Spurious accuracy is to be eschewed at all times, so these two anchors are commonly referred to either as "32 lbs" or "35 lbs" in the former case and as "45 lbs" in the latter case.

Hauling the "45" by Armstrong's capstan is a bit of a chore, but not impossible. The "35" is a piecacake.

TP

[parkstone bay]

Put a 34 footer on a 22 pound anchor? Really?

[Uricanejack]

Originally Posted by thomm225

You must be strong as hell if your 32 Kg Bruce seems like it weighs approx 35 lbs in American!

Ok you got me. Its a 15kg Bruce which is approximately 35lbs

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by parkstone bay

Put a 34 footer on a 22 pound anchor? Really?

Sure. Rocnas guide is very conservative. I'd go one size smaller and call it good.

[CaptainJohn49]

I have 1/4” G4 on my Flicka. Plenty strong. The only problem is that shackle pins won’t fit through the 1/4” links unless you weld an oversized link at the chain end. I ordered mine from the factory that way with an oversized link.

CaptainJohn49

[JPA Cate]

Hello, everybody.

I would like to clarify something that was written much earlier on in this discussion. The assertion was made that Army Sailor's windlass would not be capable of being used with new chain. This isn't completely the case, IT WOULD NEED A NEW GYPSY to fit the new chain, and then the windlass could be used if there is nothing wrong with it.

There are actually many gypsies to fit 3/8" chain, and you need to take a piece of chain with you and try it in the gypsies to get the best fit. The chain needs to lie comfortably, like a baby in a snug cradle, and your eyes will see it when it's right. It was quite an eye opener for me, 'cause I thought all 3/8" chain was the same, and ditto, the gypsies, but not so. Thanks to the Maxwell rep for showing me.

So, to ArmySailor, keep the windlass, change the gypsy if you change chain size. The boat was set up to travel all over the world. I would shorten the present chain to 50 ft., and buy a connecting link to re-attach it, if you go offshore and far away.

The Bruce will set faster than the CQR type. I'd trial it before chucking it. If it works okay for you, that's a little less hassle. There are still people using CQR's, and I've had a copy hold well in 55 knots, they're not horrible, but the new generation anchors set quicker, and re-set better. Ime, the Bruce doesn't like to re-set well in gucky mud, it's claw stays full of the old mud, so it presents a ball, instead of a claw, when it drags.

The advice about a Fortress is good, imho, although if you find a 20 lb. HT Danforth from some cheap source, it will do well in Chesapeake mud. They are not fashionable any more, the Fortress is better, and has the capability to be adjusted according to bottom, but ours still does its job. Depends on where you want to spend money. Jim used about 30 ft. chain, and nylon rode back of it, with that 20 lb HT Danforth on his Yankee 30, from SF to the Channel Is off Sta Barbara, and when we went to HI, as well. Never dragged, even with wind against tide.

Ann

[JimsCAL]

Originally Posted by parkstone bay

Put a 34 footer on a 22 pound anchor? Really?

A Fortress FX-16 is 10lbs and perfectly fine for a 34 footer. It's recommended for boats up to 38 foot.

[evm1024]

The old generation anchors were pretty much the best of their time. They are not bad, it is jut that the new generation anchors are better.

I'm not casting stones. I'm just telling a story. Take from it what you will.

I was chatting with some dock mates the other day (well it was a year or so ago) about the advantages of the new generation anchors.

One of the other boaters has a Delta and has spent a lot of time in Baja Mexico, the other has a CQR and tends to head north to Canada.

I was telling them of the advantages of of Mantus anchors ( I sell them after all). How they set, reset and almost never drag. I offered to loan them a Mantus so that they could give a new generation anchor a try to see how well they work.

Both of them said that they were very happy with their anchors and how well their anchors worked. They said that they never have trouble setting or dragging. It was interesting because they both more or less said the same thing.

But, and here is the but - Their Admirals had a different recollection. Both Admirals recalled the many times that their anchors (more so for the CQR) failed to set and had to be pulled for another try. They both talked about times that they dragged in the night and of times that they did not sleep for worry that they would drag.

Where the skippers spoke glowingly of the performance of their respective anchors the Admirals spoke of their uncertainty and lack of a good nights sleep. They spoke of their worry when going ashore, not knowing if their boat would be where they left it.

I think that Admirals view the world differently then Captains do.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by parkstone bay

Put a 34 footer on a 22 pound anchor? Really?

umm... yes. Anchors are like car oil changes. The engineers spend a great deal of time proving that 7500 miles is a suitable oil change, yet most "backyard experts" recommend 3000 miles if you care about your engine. The Danforth design team recommends a 25 pound "standard" model for boats to 40 feet, and if you buy the HT argument (in Chesapeake mud, I don't -- it's not strength, it's square inches that matter) they recommend 20 pounds to 50 feet and 35 pounds to 65 feet. Granted, they state 20 kt winds, but still they recommend 16 pounds for a 36 footer -- one size larger (25 pounds) is a big Danforth for a 34 footer! Go look at one sometime -- a 35 pound Danforth is a monster. I grew up sailing a 40 foot Garden ketch -- 28,000 pounds with a very high bow -- and we normally used a 22. The high bow would "tack" at anchor, so in heavier winds we'd set two 22 pounders in a hammerhead moor to stop the sailing.



Like oil changes, conspiracists will argue that the oil change interval is set high to make the car maintenance costs seem low AND kill the engine early -- and anchor manufacturers recommend low weights to make anchors seem more affordable. I tend to think no one knows their product better than the designer.



Harry

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by evm1024

The old generation anchors were pretty much the best of their time. They are not bad, it is jut that the new generation anchors are better.

I'm not casting stones. I'm just telling a story. Take from it what you will.

I was chatting with some dock mates the other day (well it was a year or so ago) about the advantages of the new generation anchors.

One of the other boaters has a Delta and has spent a lot of time in Baja Mexico, the other has a CQR and tends to head north to Canada.

I was telling them of the advantages of of Mantus anchors ( I sell them after all). How they set, reset and almost never drag. I offered to loan them a Mantus so that they could give a new generation anchor a try to see how well they work.

Both of them said that they were very happy with their anchors and how well their anchors worked. They said that they never have trouble setting or dragging. It was interesting because they both more or less said the same thing.

But, and here is the but - Their Admirals had a different recollection. Both Admirals recalled the many times that their anchors (more so for the CQR) failed to set and had to be pulled for another try. They both talked about times that they dragged in the night and of times that they did not sleep for worry that they would drag.

Where the skippers spoke glowingly of the performance of their respective anchors the Admirals spoke of their uncertainty and lack of a good nights sleep. They spoke of their worry when going ashore, not knowing if their boat would be where they left it.

I think that Admirals view the world differently then Captains do.

Yes, they seem to confuse the facts when their insecurities are involved.