How much anchor is too much anchor?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Anchor recommendations no storm stories

Reckon just about every type has been recommended, abused, defended by now.. swinging the lantern a bit reduces/breaks up the boring repeats..

[Pete the Cat]

I think all the talk about a "bigger" anchor or one of the "next generation" that will "never drag" is very very dangerous for your safety if you are actually going cruising. If you are just a marketer or a docky trying earn points with your fellow slipmates on "who has the biggest" or who bought the "best", buy whatever gives you bragging rights. But if you are actually going cruising, you need to know that there is NO anchor that will not drag in some conditions. The anchor manufacturers and the magazines all have an economic interest in convincing you that some anchor is flawless (especially the latest model--remember when Practical Sailor nominated the Bulwagga anchor as the best??). Practical Sailor would have no following if they stuck with basic seamanship and did not suggest some product is better--that is their business. Some anchors may be better in some conditions. None is perfect or even suited to all. And you have no control over situations like the time I anchored on a sunken smooth concrete slab in El Salvador. Or the time I dropped my anchor in a sunken tarp in another open roadstead and could not figure why it would not set after repeated attempts. Other than that, in 40 years of cruising, I have sometimes had a second anchor ready to deploy in snotty conditions, but i am much more likely to consider a safer place in bad situations.
But the most important thing is that, if you actually cruise, you need to have an anchor that you can get off the bottom or out of the boat and get the hell out of a lee shore, wind and wave situation--common in real cruising. A bunch of boats went ashore this last winter in Central America. Some claimed they could not get their gear up and finally some part of the gear snapped when things got bad enough they ended up ashore when the wind and surf overcame their gear. The more experienced sailors had left hours earlier for deeper water and open sea. You cannot substitute gear for seamanship. No matter what the sellers and experts tell you. Sometimes, I will say often, your best move is to move when thing get uncomfortable in an anchorage. Hunkering down behind a "next generation" anchor in a situation like that could cost your boat--it has happened. Most folks will probably never go cruising. I cringe in anchorages these days at the anchoring techniques I see. Most of it seems to be toss and pray. Just one opinion about "big enough". Depends on where you are sailing and what experience you have.

[jonathanv]

Why not have both?

And shipping is only 3,99!

(Popped up on my feed, just perfect timing for this thread)

[smj]

Originally Posted by Pete the Cat

I think all the talk about a "bigger" anchor or one of the "next generation" that will "never drag" is very very dangerous for your safety if you are actually going cruising. If you are just a marketer or a docky trying earn points with your fellow slipmates on "who has the biggest" or who bought the "best", buy whatever gives you bragging rights. But if you are actually going cruising, you need to know that there is NO anchor that will not drag in some conditions. The anchor manufacturers and the magazines all have an economic interest in convincing you that some anchor is flawless (especially the latest model--remember when Practical Sailor nominated the Bulwagga anchor as the best??). Practical Sailor would have no following if they stuck with basic seamanship and did not suggest some product is better--that is their business. Some anchors may be better in some conditions. None is perfect or even suited to all. And you have no control over situations like the time I anchored on a sunken smooth concrete slab in El Salvador. Or the time I dropped my anchor in a sunken tarp in another open roadstead and could not figure why it would not set after repeated attempts. Other than that, in 40 years of cruising, I have sometimes had a second anchor ready to deploy in snotty conditions, but i am much more likely to consider a safer place in bad situations.

But the most important thing is that, if you actually cruise, you need to have an anchor that you can get off the bottom or out of the boat and get the hell out of a lee shore, wind and wave situation--common in real cruising. A bunch of boats went ashore this last winter in Central America. Some claimed they could not get their gear up and finally some part of the gear snapped when things got bad enough they ended up ashore when the wind and surf overcame their gear. The more experienced sailors had left hours earlier for deeper water and open sea. You cannot substitute gear for seamanship. No matter what the sellers and experts tell you. Sometimes, I will say often, your best move is to move when thing get uncomfortable in an anchorage. Hunkering down behind a "next generation" anchor in a situation like that could cost your boat--it has happened. Most folks will probably never go cruising. I cringe in anchorages these days at the anchoring techniques I see. Most of it seems to be toss and pray. Just one opinion about "big enough". Depends on where you are sailing and what experience you have.

Can’t say anyone in this thread has stated their anchor can’t drag, just that they believe a certain type may have overall better performance than another.
I read an article that stated those that stick with the older style anchors are probably the same people that use cotton sails and kerosene lamps!
There have been many upgrades to boating in the past decades, one being the invention of the new gen anchor, and a beautiful thing it is!

[Cynara]

I love ZCqr discussions. When we were cruising the modrn anchor was the bruce and CQR worked fine. Just had to learn how to use it

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Pete the Cat

I think all the talk about a "bigger" anchor or one of the "next generation" that will "never drag" is very very dangerous for your safety if you are actually going cruising.

I don’t think anyone believes that an oversized new generation anchor cannot drag.

Originally Posted by Pete the Cat

You cannot substitute gear for seamanship. No matter what the sellers and experts tell you.

Fitting good gear does not diminish someones skills or their seamanship.

[Dave Isom]

I have a large CQR which would be the right size for your boat, it came off my fairly heavy (14 tonne) steel yacht. You can have it for FREE ! It’s in Melbourne Australia in my front garden, come and pick it up !
Get the message mate ?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Dave Isom

I have a large CQR which would be the right size for your boat, it came off my fairly heavy (14 tonne) steel yacht. You can have it for FREE ! It’s in Melbourne Australia in my front garden, come and pick it up !
Get the message mate ?

Wishing I was headed there I would take it . Have a friend that's sailing that general direction he may be able to take possession what is the actual weight?
35 or 45?

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

It does not seem that Peter Smith, the designer of Rocna anchors, followed his own anchor sizing tables when selecting the primary anchor for his own vessel.

He selected a Rocna 55 for a 15.5m 27t boat. This is oversized.

Even the Rocna tables only size an anchor assuming 50 knots and many companies are far worse. For example, the Fortress sizing table assumes a maximum of a very modest 30 knots of wind.

What makes you think manufacturers oversize their anchors when publishing the sizing tables? It is in their best interest to recommend an anchor as small as possible. Potential buyers assume the model with the smallest recommended size must be the superior design.

Because they state that.

A lot of manufacturers base their tables on 50 kt wind. Some have tables for higher winds and some dont. Some say go up one size for more wind. They also know that the wind force is a function of the wind speed squared and to go from 50 kt wind to 70 kt wind almost doubles the force of the wind not to mention the wave action. With that said, it becomes impractical to carry an anchor big enough for ALL conditions. The Rocna 55 for a 27 foot boat is what you end up with. Just imagine what a 40 footer would require for 100 kt winds. Its just not feasable. Get a mooring in extreme conditions or pull out.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

A lot of manufacturers base their tables on 50 kt wind.

Actually, most do not specify a number.

50 knots does not qualify as extreme, but oversized modern anchors have more benefits than increasing the chance of managing in severe and extreme weather events.

The main benefit is in more common conditions, where the ability to anchor in marginal substrates, and/or at shorter scopes than would otherwise be practical opens up anchor locations that otherwise would not be practical or safe.

[JD111]

A friend of mine had an anchor that was too big for his boat. He said that it was great when it was set BUT that it was difficult to set correctly since his boat was too small to provide enough force to properly dig it in.

Something to think about for all anchor types.

[nofacey]

Originally Posted by smj

If all I could afford was a CQR or Bruce anchor I would give up sailing and take on a hobby like gardening. Life is to short.

That transcends stupidity - CQR or Bruce anchors may not be the latest & greatest, but many competent sailors have (and continue to) anchor reliably with them - Jedi continues to use a Bruce, I circumnavigated with a CQR - which means we encountered a wide range of bottoms - and survived!

[parkstone bay]

There's the old line that "no-one ever woke up in the middle of the night in a F10+ wind saying 'I really wish that I'd bought a smaller anchor'".
Having said that, and at a much much lower level, I used to have a 15lb CQR on my little MB in Poole. Every lunchtime, without fail, the damn thing would drag. I put on a 7.5 kg D-type (Delta lookalike), so in fact 16.5 lb, and I'm really happy with it, for what I need. And the old CQR? It's a great back gate "door stop", at home.

[boatman61]

Ahh.. the tides and shifting sands of Poole Harbour, I remember them well.. along with the popular lunch stop in the channel behind Brownsea Island.
Strong tides with two highs in every cycle a unique tidal area.

[smj]

Originally Posted by nofacey

That transcends stupidity - CQR or Bruce anchors may not be the latest & greatest, but many competent sailors have (and continue to) anchor reliably with them - Jedi continues to use a Bruce, I circumnavigated with a CQR - which means we encountered a wide range of bottoms - and survived!

What transcends stupidity is relying on that archaic piece of crap hanging off your bow to possibly save your investment in your boat or god forbid your lives.
You know the new generation anchors have been in production for 25 years now?