Do I have TOO much chain?

[pnw2022]

TLDR; Keep the 400ft chain and one of the 50ft or 100ft lengths as well.

Originally Posted by WE9V

1) 400 feet of 3/8" G4 on the primary anchor.

2) plus 50 feet of 3/8" G4 on a secondary anchor

3) I discovered another 100 feet of 3/8" G4 connected to nothing, lying at the bottom of the anchor locker.

4) After removing the unused 100', I don't seem to have to flake the chain upon retrieval, so vertical fall has improved.

#1. Sweet

#2. nice

#3. Probably that was the prior owner was supplied with before he bought the 400 foot length.

#4. Makes sense - and having an anchor well that simply accepts everything is a HUGE bonus.


So - all said and done, maybe...

I guess it depends upon what you mean by 'performance' and whether you are racing, cruising, hitting little latitudes, etc? From brief description I would probably:

1) 400ft main chain - just keep it, especially since it all drops into the anchor well cleanly.

2/3) Compare both the existing secondary 50ft and 100ft, and see which is in better shape. Keep in mind deploying a secondary (sometimes 'emergency') anchor when there is too much chain, can be very difficult. Probably it will be a spare if you ever have to cut the main anchor as well, so if one fits the windlass and the other does not - that one is the keeper.

4) Bonus, and keep the operations for the main anchor that way.

[hpeer]

Basically I am with Jedi on this. I too have a 2x oversize anchor, a Mantus 125# on a heavy 44 foot boat.

The only caveat is to make sure your windlass can handle the anchor plus rode. Off hand I would not want to exceed the windlass rating for anchor plus 70 feet (minimum) of chain.

Put the weight in the anchor, you will use that every time.

[smj]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I agree with other comments that something like 200’ of chain is enough for the Bahamas, but you are not buying chain, you are getting rid of some and already have a 400’ length of chain! Here are the reasons to keep that at the bow:



- you would remove 150’ so getting rid of a lot of weight already

- replacing two anchors with one big one is still a weight saving

- yes, we used 400’ anchor rode in the Caribbean. Places like Dominica, Cartagena de Indias etc. come to mind first. There will be times you need it.



On the anchor being a couple sizes bigger than the 66 lb old generation one: 66 lb is nothing, it’s just 30kg. My primary anchor is 176 lb or 80kg. I would agree a new generation anchor counts as a size up so I would be okay going down a bit with one of the new gen anchors but I didn’t see a single one that I would trust as much as what I have now.



For your boat something like a Rocna Vulcan 33 sounds nice and matches up with the chain you have.



For the Fortress… I have an fx85 that I use now and then. I also have a fx125 which is a beast. I love them. I would go for that fx37 Cheechako has

Have you ever experienced anchoring with a new generation anchor?

[Jim Cate]

FWIW: We've been full time since 1986 and have rarely been in marinas or on moorings until lately. Been throughout the Pacific, mostly in the Southern Hemisphere. On both of the boats involved we've used ~275 feet of 10 mm/3/8" chain, and have never needed more... and seldom used more than 200 feet. A variety of anchors have been used with CQR/knockoff, Bruce,Bruce knockoff and for the last 15 years or so a Manson Supreme 60 lb, so nothing out of the ordinary there and we're still around to tell tales.

In your place I think using what is there for a while longer is reasonable, removing all but the bower anchor and its rode from the bow. When the finances are ready, a ~ 75 lb modern anchor would offer better performance in many bottoms, and IMO you could knock 100 feet or so of chain off the bower rode. You may not realize how much performance you are loosing with the extra weight up in the bow, but any experienced racer will tell you that the loss is real, especially upwind in a chop. Besides going a bit faster in those conditions, the motion will be better with less hobby horsing and potential pounding.

Oh... the first boat was an ex IOR one tonner, 36 ft, ~11 tonnes. Current boat is 46 ft and ~12+ tonnes loaded to cruise. Your boat is kinda in between them in size and anchor loads.

Good luck in your decision, and happy cruising.

Jim

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by smj

Have you ever experienced anchoring with a new generation anchor?

Yes, it held just fine but we didn’t have any challenging conditions and it felt very light.

The experience of requiring a heavier than recommended anchor, even when it is a new generation anchor, is from observing and aiding boats anchored around us over the years.

When there’s “survival conditions”, like violent thunderstorms coming through the anchorage with 70 kts wind, we felt secure enough to get into the dinghy and help those who were dragging, leaving Jedi to handle herself.
Of the boats dragging, many had new generation anchors, most were fine but too small and some (aluminium Spade) were no good at all. Boats that stay put during such squalls all have oversized (according to manufacturers recommendations) anchors.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I recommend you remove the 100’ and 50’ length ps of chain, keeping the 400’ length.

Also, remove both anchors and replace with a single one capable of holding the boat in all conditions. Think a Rocna, Manson, Spade etc. of a couple sizes larger than what you have now. With that anchor on the bowroller, there won’t be room for a second anchor, which is good.

Cut 25’ off the 50’ length and splice a 200’ nylon line to it. Put that in the lazarette together with a Fortress anchor. This is the 2nd anchor.

The other 25’ as well as the 100’ are not needed… sell it

This exactly

400' is not indeed too much chain; can be very useful indeed in deep water.

But second anchors on the bow and chain on THEM is dead weight in a place which affects sailing performance. You want one big, heavy, modern anchor, and one length of chain, which you use every time you anchor.

And the kedge should be a Fortress (or Guardian or whaever), and keep it on the pushpit or in the laz, with rope rode. I keep mine in an anchor locker at the bow, but I think rigged ready to go on a bracket on the pushpit is probably the optimum way to carry it. One of the several purposes of the kedge is as an emergency anchor, and you will save a great deal of precious time in case of urgent need, if it's there rather than buried in the laz someplace.

My only quibble with Jedi's excellent and comprehensive post is that I would use polyester and not nylon for the kedge anchor's rope rode.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

My only quibble with Jedi's excellent and comprehensive post is that I would use polyester and not nylon for the kedge anchor's rope rode.

Blasphemy!

I have Yale Cordage nylon 8-strand which works okay’ish for me… better than 3-strand. Would you prefer polyester in which construction type? I’m thinking simple double braid?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Blasphemy!

I have Yale Cordage nylon 8-strand which works okay’ish for me… better than 3-strand. Would you prefer polyester in which construction type? I’m thinking simple double braid?

I'm using double braid, but octoplait would be better, as it stretches a bit more.


I avoid nylon for such applications after reading Dashew's The Right Rode, which suggests that nylon has a number of disadvantages in this application -- vulnerability to chafe, wet strength, cycling failure.


I removed my main bower anchor and chain before a big ocean race we had about three years ago -- in order to lighten the bow -- and didn't replace it until last year, so spent two seasons without a main bower anchor. So I used the Fortress with rope rode those two years -- and it was GREAT. We were in the Baltic that whole time so no really challenging conditions, but it was still impressive how well this setup worked, and using the windlass.

[s/v Jedi]

Yes, you can find the article online, like here: https://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-a...right-rode.pdf

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I recommend you remove the 100’ and 50’ length ps of chain, keeping the 400’ length.

Also, remove both anchors and replace with a single one capable of holding the boat in all conditions. Think a Rocna, Manson, Spade etc. of a couple sizes larger than what you have now. With that anchor on the bowroller, there won’t be room for a second anchor, which is good.

Cut 25’ off the 50’ length and splice a 200’ nylon line to it. Put that in the lazarette together with a Fortress anchor. This is the 2nd anchor.

s/v Jedi speaks my mind. My boat is set up exactly like this, except that I have 275' of chain and 125' of 8 plait in the bow locker.


I would not cut down the 400' piece unless it is clear that there's a weight problem.

[ranger58sb]

I almost agree with Jedi...

Improve the main anchor, biggest/heaviest modern you can fit. (See Panope anchor tests, especially his #131 unless there's a newer one with a good comparison chart at the end.)

Keep the 400' of chain, on that anchor; costs nothing, and I suspect it's not a huge performance factor. (Although I'm not so expert at sailing, so find a grain of salt if you need it.)

Diverging...

Since you can... easily... keep another anchor on the bow, ready for immediate emergency deployment. Decent new anchor, different style than the main, maybe sacrifice slightly a bit of size/weight in favor of performance. (See Steve's comparisons, again.) With either the 50' or the 100' of chain, plus a generous length of rope (8-plait?) to fill out the rode. An FX-37 might be a decent choice...

And then keep a Fortress (or Guardian) loose for a kedge. Maybe an FX-23 if above turns out to be an FX-37.

Bag the extra 50' or 100' of chain.

-Chris

[WE9V]

Thanks everyone for your input.

Over H season, I'll be on the lookout for a used big new gen anchor, or wait for another Mantus 20% sale. I hesitated on their Easter sale. One reason was I don't know what will fit. I see they have templates you can print out, but no printer on boat. I'll print a few back home in Wisconsin, then when I make a mid-summer welfare check on the boat visit, I'll see what fits. I'll also keep an eye out for a Fortress. And I'll work on selling the 45# secondary (plow) and 100' of chain.

[rslifkin]

Jedi's sizing recommendation for the Vulcan (or other new gen anchors) of the 33kg / 73lb model (or similar size in other models) lines up with what I would recommend. A 41 foot Beneteau should be slightly lighter than my 38 foot powerboat and probably slightly lower windage, but not enough that I'd want to go smaller in the anchor department. A 33kg / 73lb Vulcan has served us well for the last few years.

As far as chain, I agree with removing the 100 and 50 foot lengths from the chain locker. Probably use the 50 (or part of it) for a secondary anchor, but I'd store that somewhere further aft for weight distribution. Keep the 400 feet for the primary, and if in a few years you find you've never come close to the last 100 feet, then you could consider cutting the rode down to 300 feet (remove whichever end is in worse condition at that point).

If weight is a concern but you want the long rode, look at whether your windlass can handle a chain / line combo within reasonable effort. If it can, you could always reduce to 250 - 300 feet of chain and follow that with 100+ feet of line.

[Kd9truck]

Given the same ground tackle, I would keep the chain on board low in the center, Beneteau is a light vesssel more moveable ballist would not hurt. Also all chain anchor system needs a snubber and bridle system. Cheers

[carlwk3c]

We cruised the east coast of the US and have spent the last 6+ years in the Caribbean from Bahamas to Grenada on our 34’ monohull. We have 300’ of 5/16 G40 chain and normally use a 35# CQR as our anchor. (We have a 65# Mantus that we put on the chain on the bow roller during hurricane season.)
We’ve never needed to put out more than about 150’ of chain in any of the anchorages throughout the aforementioned area. In fact, I can’t think of an anchorage where it would be possible/prudent, let alone necessary, to put out 4-500’ of chain.
We do clean the 150’ we’ve been using and do an end to end every 2 years when we haul out for bottom maintenance.