Anchor Chain Hook Poll

[Kettlewell]

On my cat I had a couple of bow eyes near the waterlines that I lead the bridle from. The disadvantage is that you had to haul in chain in order to disconnect it, but the bridle wouldn't interfere with anything. The really short bridle someone described negates one of the bridles most important virtues--reducing yawing at anchor greatly. My cat would always point right into the wind with both bridle legs staying taught.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by JonJo

We cannot use a long bridle ahead of our bows on our cat - we have a prodder (bowsprit in mono speak - why they are called prodders, no idea!) The prodder is held down with kicker wires (why kicker - no idea) that run from prodder end and are secured just above the waterline on the bow. A long bridle direct off the bow would need to be under or over the wires, if under the bridle would wear out over night in any wind and if over they would wear out in a few nights hanging loosely over the wires - hence our bridle starts at the transom horn cleats and is almost hull length + half the beam - about 13m each side. Our chain hook really only just touches the water (because most of our bridle/snubber is along the deck) and as we draw, about, 1m - even with a min of 2m water depth we can have a fair amount of slack chain as the bow roller is at about 1.5m above the water - so securing the hook by 'gravity'. We need a fair amount of slack anyway to cater for the stretch of the bridle.

I've seen cats with your setup that use chafe guards on the bridle ~2'-6' off the hull attachments.

I also believe it's OK to call it a bow sprit on a cat.

I have one, but no problem with bridle chafe!

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by DotDun

I've seen cats with your setup that use chafe guards on the bridle ~2'-6' off the hull attachments.

I also believe it's OK to call it a bow sprit on a cat.

I have one, but no problem with bridle chafe!

Am I right in deducing that you do not have bracing wires to hold down the bow sprit? Yours looks to be an engineered moulding (dificult to be sure with the image), ours is a simple tube, hinged to the cross beam (that needs held down).

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by JonJo

Am I right in deducing that you do not have bracing wires to hold down the bow sprit? Yours looks to be an engineered moulding (dificult to be sure with the image), ours is a simple tube, hinged to the cross beam (that needs held down).

Correct, the FP bow sprit is a rigid moulded unit attached to the bridgedeck just aft of the net and to the underside of the fore cross beam, running under the net. It also adds a nice walkway to go forward.

If you attach a bridle at the hull attachment point of the cross beam and route it forward of your sprit 'hold down' wires with a few feet of chafe guard it would not touch the wires in a blow and when there is no blow the chafe guard *should* protect the bridle.

At least that is what I've seen others do, but have no direct experience. Your setup may be different than I'm envisioning.

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

The really short bridle someone described negates one of the bridles most important virtues--reducing yawing at anchor greatly. My cat would always point right into the wind with both bridle legs staying taught.

Most bridles as supplied by the people who commission cats, sometimes the yacht builder, usually only supply bridles for which each arm is not much longer than half the distance from the anchoring point (commonly end of cross beam) to the chain hook. Bridles commonly supplied as original are usally far to thick to offer any elasticity.

We could attach our bridle to the same anchoring point as we use for the bow sprit kicker wires (down at the bottom of the bow), we have already beefed it up with extra glass and backing plate.

Obviously bridles should be as long as is practical to enjoy elasticity but

Is there are optimum bridle length, to reduce yawing.

[Shamancat]

The chain hook I am using is labeled AISI 316 and has a shackle pin instead of an eye. I secure it to the chain with a bit of light line to keep it from falling off during deployment and retrieval. The bridal is a 12m length of 20mm 3 strand nylon with a figure 8 on a bight at the center through the shackle and secured at each end of the forebeam about 6m apart.

Used a ABI grabber on the last cat with good success but can't find a symmetric grabber here. That mantus looks good will try to find one.

[skipgundlach]

I use the ultra chain grab, and have been very happy with it. I like the Mantus idea, but I don't know that it would fit up in my anchor roller system, and if not, would be unusable for me.

I also don't have to do anything until my hook is on the deck in order to get it off - I just pull in the snubber line at the same time as the windlass is taking up the chain (no effort, of course, as the chain is coming up with it).

(added edit): I should add that I also have a chain hook for the secondary. The big difference in them in retrieval or deployment is that the Ultra essentially disappears in shape; the snubber line lies flat against the chain, and the Ultra represents a VERY small dimensional addition to that of the chain. For us, it's important; other anchor launch-retrieval setups may have it be of no import. (end edit)

I've had perhaps 2 instances of the hook disengaging but that's always been in deployment rather than use.

L8R

Skip

[Lagoon4us]

+1 for the ULTRA.

[knots2u]

Some have mentioned using climbing rope so I thought I'd offer this...
Generally two types of rope are used in climbing: static kernmantle and dynamic kernmantle. Static is usually used in rescue situations which require low stretch. More often that not two ropes are used, one as a separate belay. Dynamic rope is used when climbing because of its stretch; the stretch absorbs the shock from a fall. The kern of a dynamic rope is either twisted or kinked to allow it to elongate when under a shock load. Under a significant shock it won't return to its original length. Manufacturers will state the number of falls a rope can sustain before it needs to be replaced. Used climbing rope may have been taken out of service because it has reached this limit. That's not to say it won't have any stretch but it won't likely be any more "dynamic" than regular nylon line and may possible be less.

[zeehag]

.i voted home made, but i didnt realize that is a standard--my home made is a cow hitch of cheepo floatie rope on my chain and each end thru opposing hawse holes. mexistyler.....

rodl

[Kettlewell]

So, Zeehag, I guess you don't have any problems with that sliding on the chain?

[zeehag]

not yet.....i dont use it often...i was using a hook made for the spinnaker i dont use....but that didnt work so well when sprit plays s and m with chain as a bull whip....

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by knots2u

Some have mentioned using climbing rope so I thought I'd offer this...
Manufacturers will state the number of falls a rope can sustain before it needs to be replaced. Used climbing rope may have been taken out of service because it has reached this limit.

No.

The number of falls is the number of fall factor 1.8 falls it can withstand before failure. A 1.8 fall factor results in a load of about 50% of the breaking strength inflicted suddenly while the rope is placed across a slightly sharp edge. Basically, an absolute worse scenario fall which very few climbers will ever expereince or witness.This has absolutely no close relationship to the number of routine falls a dynamic rope can easily handle, which is certainly hundreds typical leader falls and thousands of top rope falls.

Would a climbing rope be more dynamic or durable than an equivanent quality marine line? No. It is built with special features (balanced core for zero rotation, tight sheath for minimum snagging, easy hand and superior knotability) that are not relevant on boats.b They do poorly in sun and are not particularly abrasion resistant. They make nice rodes for smaller (>25 feet) boats, but that's about it.

Horses for courses.

[sabray]

I usually tie off with a hitch 5/8 3 strand or double. Braid. have one snubber with a chain hook. Really thinking that ill make up a piece with 2 1/4" dyneema line in a loop. Stitched loosely together and then a Prusik knot that to chain. Should exceed wll 3/4 inch double braid with eye splice which would be the tie line.
One question is wether the eye splice on the double braid should have a thimble. Course any comment to this is welcome.

[model 10]

Opinions; Not sure why you would loosely stitch the ends together of the little bit of line you would use for your Prusik Loop. Seems like you would splice that also. How do you attach a Prusik Loop to a Snubber with a spliced end? Another knot or gadget?