Anchor Chain Castling and Chain Twisting

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

Our chain runs smoothly (absolutely NO skipping & jumping). Chain twist still happened.

I think twisting happens due boat changing position (including 360° turns) due to currents and wind.

But the question is, does that twist occur outside the boat, or inside the boat? I can certainly see getting 5 or 10 rotations while anchored. But I would assume that as soon as the anchor lifts off the bottom, they would all untwist.

I do not see any way for a twist to work through the Gypsy and into the anchor locker.

Note that in the last 2 summers we have probably anchored over a hundred times, usually with over 125 ft out, and I've never noticed any twisting in any part of the anchor chain.

Our boat came with a swivel, but after reading enough of the admonitions on Practical Sailor about anchor swivels, we removed it shortly after we bought the boat.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by ItDepends

There is NO WAY for a chain twist to get through a gypsy unless the chain is skipping and jumping while being retrieved. It simply can not happen if the chain is running in smoothly as it should.

That kind of behavior usually indicates a size mismatch between the gypsy and chain, or possibly a severely worn gypsy. I strongly suspect that these are the REAL reasons a few people have twisted chain in their anchor lockers.

I think that depends on the type/make of windlass. A VERTICAL windlass wraps the chain almost completely around the shaft before sending it downward but not so for a HORIZONTAL windlass where the chain just rides up over the gypsy then to the deck pipe.

My boat's anchor well was designed for a horizontal windlass with closing anchor well doors. When I had it installed I had it put as high as it can get in the anchor well with doors closed...I would have preferred a vertical windlass but there was no way to install it without a major redesign. When I am raising anchor I place the sole of my left foot (tennis shoe) against the chain/gypsy to minimize jumping. As I look forward to the roller I can see the chain links twisting coming in.

[Locquatious]

When we converted to SS chain the castling stopped. SS is just more slippery.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Locquatious

When we converted to SS chain the castling stopped. SS is just more slippery.

Practical Sailor specifically did not recommend stainless steel chain for the same reason they don't recommend stainless steel swivels, the propensity of stainless steel to suddenly break. However, I think you may be onto something with the coarseness of the chain working to castle it.

Thanks for your input.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by MJH

Practical Sailor specifically did not recommend stainless steel chain for the same reason they don't recommend stainless steel swivels, the propensity of stainless steel to suddenly break. However, I think you may be onto something with the coarseness of the chain working to castle it.

Thanks for your input.

Yeah, that's why no one ever uses SS chainplates or rigging!

[Pauls]

The correct design for an anchor chain locker is tall and narrow. A locker like this cannot castle and is user friendly. Most production boats are plagued with comparatively wide chain lockers, and it is this that causes the problems this thread addresses.

In good yacht design the anchoring system, including the chain locker, is an integral part of the design. Unfortunately in many boats it is shoehorned into a space that is not useable for other interior purposes.

[carstenb]

We have a capstan (or horizontal windlass, even though the correct erm is a capstan).

I have rigged a jeep winch remote ($15 on amazon) so I can control the capstan with one hand while I use a boat hook to flake the chain nicely in the anchor well.

We never have castling.
Re Chain twist - yes we have it, not sure why. When we are in a marina, we just run the chain all the way out, repaint the markings and untwist it.

no bi gdeal

[RaymondR]

Even though twists should not work their way past the anchor winch the little beggars do and no end of blasphemy or profanity will prevent it.

No doubt a tall shinny anchor locker would help solve the problem but the anchor is deployed from the pointy end of the boat and tall skinny spaces are generally at a premium up there.

My anchor locker has a divider down the centre so I drilled a hole through it and put rollers on both sides. All the extra chain goes through the hole and stores in the non working side and the minimal amount of the working chain tends not to make a peaked heap which will fall over. If I do lay out more it just pulls out of the non working side over the rollers.

[wsmurdoch]

We spray the anchor chain with Boshield T-9. Sometimes we spray it in a cardboard box on the dock and other times we spray it in the anchor locker. It greases up the chain and greatly reduces the castling. It lasts for about 75 anchorings before it is lost. I'd bet any spray grease would work just as well. We first sprayed the chain in hopes of improving its corrosion resistance by shedding water (and maybe some mud) from the chain surface before it was dropped into the anchor locker. Solving the castling problem was a pleasant surprise.

[RaymondR]

Could not get the image to transfer for the previous post.

This works quiet well.

If I put more chain out than is in the ready use side of the locker it just pulls more over the rollers from the LHS. When I retrieve the chain it feeds into the storage side until I pull enough back to balance out the sides then it feeds into the ready use side.

My winch has a clutch which releases when you try to pull hard on the chain out of the locker. Before I made the roller modification the chain would either topple over an oblige me to drag it out by hand or if I had moved the excess to the storage side go below and hand feed more over to the ready use side.

The rubber rollers are the ones you buy to put on a boat trailer for the keel.

[ItDepends]

Originally Posted by MJH

I think that depends on the type/make of windlass. A VERTICAL windlass wraps the chain almost completely around the shaft before sending it downward but not so for a HORIZONTAL windlass where the chain just rides up over the gypsy then to the deck pipe.

My boat's anchor well was designed for a horizontal windlass with closing anchor well doors. When I had it installed I had it put as high as it can get in the anchor well with doors closed...I would have preferred a vertical windlass but there was no way to install it without a major redesign. When I am raising anchor I place the sole of my left foot (tennis shoe) against the chain/gypsy to minimize jumping. As I look forward to the roller I can see the chain links twisting coming in.

If the chain is "jumping" on the gypsy, is does NOT fit the gypsy!!!! It should NEVER do that--no matter if it is a vertical or horizontal unit, and no matter the brand either. It is also possible that the lead to the gypsy is SO bad that it just doesn't run straight, or have enough "wrap" around it to work properly.

Every time it "jumps" it is likely to transfer at least a half twist down into the chain locker which can't ever get out without jamming things up.

If you have to keep your foot on it to "minimize" jumping, something is wrong. That is NOT normal, and should NOT be considered acceptable.

[MJH]

It Depends: please explain what you mean by "...lead to the gypsy."

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by MJH

It Depends: please explain what you mean by "...lead to the gypsy."

I think it means the chain path from bow roller to gypsy. If the gypsy isn’t parallel to the lead that would cause problems, but unlikely if the windlass was installed as original equipment.

Let out all the chain from your locker, then put it back onto the gypsy by hand and orient the links so that there is a straight, not twisted length of chain between the bow roller and the gypsy. Bring the chain in with as little load as possible. Since your roller has a groove that should prevent the chain from bringing any twisting in the anchor side of the roller to the gypsy side. That should get all twists out of your anchor chain.

When lowering your chain do you let it out so fast that it jumps around on your gypsy or the bow roller? If not, and if the chain isn’t twisted in your locker and the chain stays on the gypsy while lowering, then regardless of any circles while the anchor is down it should come up and resolve the twists before the bow roller. You can try stopping the windlass as soon as the anchor clears the bottom so it can turn and unwind any twists. The exception is in very shallow water, where the twists hockle the chain before the anchor clears the bottom.

[RaymondR]

Chain under tension does not twist very easily and the twists will ride over bow rollers and cause the chain to climb up the lands in the gypsy.

[Tayana42]

MJH, as you know I have the same boat only the aft cockpit model. I also have the horizontal windlass in the anchor well. And of course like many people I had issues with the chain castling. I talked to TaYang Shipyards and learned that the divided chain locker was an owner option and was not structural so I removed the decider to make more room for the chain. I also cut a 4” access hole (with a screw in deck plate) in the floor of the anchor locker to allow me to reach in and knock over the chain pile.

My chain also jumped from the windlass gypsy. It was completely resolved when I replaced the worn gypsy with a new one that I was certain was sized correctly.