Anchor Chain Castling and Chain Twisting

[MJH]

My sailing waters are the Pacific Northwest where anchoring is almost always in deep water and I am using 150-200' most of the time, sometimes 250' of my 300' 5/16" High-Test chain. Castling of the chain causes problems when the stacked chain falls over onto itself and then won't feed properly the next time it is used. I experienced it a couple of times this summer and it happens at the worst time...when I'm solo and have to leave the deck to enter the cabin, go through the sail locker to open the chain locker, untangle the mess, and then run back outside to complete anchoring while the boat is drifting freely in the anchorage.

The only sure way I know of to fix this is to have crew in the chain locker and move the chain back and forth as it comes in to prevent it from castling, similar to a fishing reel that moves fishing line back and forth across the spool so that it won't tangle. It's a simple task but in an uncomfortable location and it's a dirty job.

I understand some folks use a pry bar to push over the stack during chain retrieval through a hole in the deck/anchor well but my boat doesn't have a hole...yet.

DOES ANYONE HAVE A PROVEN METHOD TO AVOID CHAIN CASTLING?

Secondly, I have also been experiencing a lot of chain twist over the last few years despite having a swivel at the anchor. Yes, I have checked the swivel. During this last cruise it combined with chain castling into a real tight ball in the chain locker so that the chain would not extend during anchoring. It took three trips to the chain locker to untangle it.

The roller per se on my bow roller has a groove that fits the chain link supposedly to keep the chain from twisting and I can see the chain jump when twist is present. It seems that I am spending more and more time removing chain twist and don't understand why that is the case. The chain is now 12 years old and has been reversed once about seven years ago but I still think the chain itself is still in good condition.

HOW CAN I BETTER CONTROL CHAIN TWIST?

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by MJH

HOW CAN I BETTER CONTROL CHAIN TWIST?

We had the chain twist problem for years, resulting in jammed windlass if we didn't catch it in time.

IT wasn't part of the plan (to remove the twist), but this problem seems to have been solved when we redid our rode last year, switching to 230 ft chain and 170 ft of 3-strand rope (previously was only 300 feet of chain). Occasionally, we anchor in deep enough water to need to go to 250+ feet. (Even then, we usually are at only 3.5-4:1 scope.) AS IT TURNS OUT, this also untwists the chain. So no chain twists this past summer.

So perhaps splice some line to your chain, and occasionally let out 325-350 ft to clear the twist.

As for your other problem, we have to have someone at the topsides chain locker to clear the stack.

[JPA Cate]

Castling can lead to nightmares, and 2 a.m. repairs to windlasses, while circling to wait to anchor. What we used to do was insert a broom handle down the hawse hole, and knock down the tower as it built. It really helped a lot.

As to the twist. When you make your annual marina visit, unload all the chain onto the dock, and straighten it by hand as you windlass it back in. It does get twisted, and needs regular attention. Plus, if your windlass isn't strong enough, you have a problem if you let it all out at sea. You could have the devil's own time getting it back. [Solution: rolling hitches and primary winches.]

Ann

[SVNeko]

What sort of surface does your chain pile up on? Ours went onto the sloped FRP wall of our chain locker. I stuck a big piece of SS sheet there and the chain slid down much easier. We still had to knock it over from time to time but the problem was much reduced.

[Bellinghamster]

Previous owners had for some unknown reason located and routed chain through a dorade vent next to the vertical captain windlass!?! Unfortunately off center enough that the chain stacks up one side of the hill. It was idiotic and very difficult to feed chain into/out of. I fabricated a stainless spurlin pipe with a roller, with just enough room behind the roller to reach my arm down the hole and knock the castle over if/when it forms. This is a temporary fix, and was an easy choice since the large hole was already in the deck. I plan to switch to a Lofrans Tigress with a vertical drop on centerline, which should help the chain wander instead of castling.

On my previous boat I'd made a "slide" under the windlass for the chain to move it further aft where the chain locker was wider (and actually had a second slide through a slot in the bottom of the forward bulkhead that allowed about half of the 300ft of 3/8 chain to pile under the v-berth in a second "chain locker" I made (the drain for which piped into the shower sump box, which kept chain water and mud out of the bilge!). This completely solved all castling problems and always fed in/out cleanly

[ItDepends]

One traditional approach to avoiding castling issues is to put a vertical "bulkhead" directly under the chainpipe. This forces the chain to fall from side to side, prevents it from falling over on top of itself, is easy to do, and does not reduce the capacity of the chainlocker.

The design of your chainlocker will dictate if the bulkhead should be fore/aft or athwartship.

Of course, some chainlockers are just hopeless, being badly designed from the get-go.

[ggray]

If you have all chain, then I would think it works better without a swivel. Unless you are anchored long term in a tidal flow or other conditions that repeatedly rotates your boat in the same direction, if the chain goes out w/o a twist, that is how it will come in. I've never used a swivel except at a permanent mooring.

Now, if you have a mixed rode, especially with a three strand rope half, you can introduce a twist. My secondary anchor has a mixed rode with a braided rope half, which I think should help, but I don't use it enough to come to a conclusion.

Of course, the shallow water I sail in can have its own problems, but not deep anchorages!

[ItDepends]

There is NO WAY for a chain twist to get through a gypsy unless the chain is skipping and jumping while being retrieved. It simply can not happen if the chain is running in smoothly as it should.

That kind of behavior usually indicates a size mismatch between the gypsy and chain, or possibly a severely worn gypsy. I strongly suspect that these are the REAL reasons a few people have twisted chain in their anchor lockers.

[RaymondR]

Pivot the top of the hawse pipe using a piece of rubber hose and use a windscreen wiper motor to wave it backwards and forward??

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Pivot the top of the hawse pipe using a piece of rubber hose and use a windscreen wiper motor to wave it backwards and forward??

[MJH]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Pivot the top of the hawse pipe using a piece of rubber hose and use a windscreen wiper motor to wave it backwards and forward??

Now that is an original idea! Thanks.

[John_Trusty]

Originally Posted by ItDepends

One traditional approach to avoiding castling issues is to put a vertical "bulkhead" directly under the chainpipe. This forces the chain to fall from side to side, prevents it from falling over on top of itself, is easy to do, and does not reduce the capacity of the chainlocker.

The design of your chainlocker will dictate if the bulkhead should be fore/aft or athwartship.

Of course, some chainlockers are just hopeless, being badly designed from the get-go.

In order to do this cheaply, I have seen a friend insert a small orange traffic cone directly under the hawse hole in order to direct the chain fall to the side randomly. Worked for him.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by John_Trusty

In order to do this cheaply, I have seen a friend insert a small orange traffic cone directly under the hawse hole in order to direct the chain fall to the side randomly. Worked for him.

100% THIS!!! As i was reading through this thread I was thinking- a cone! Going to employ this myself

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by ItDepends

There is NO WAY for a chain twist to get through a gypsy unless the chain is skipping and jumping while being retrieved. It simply can not happen if the chain is running in smoothly as it should.



That kind of behavior usually indicates a size mismatch between the gypsy and chain, or possibly a severely worn gypsy. I strongly suspect that these are the REAL reasons a few people have twisted chain in their anchor lockers.

Our chain runs smoothly (absolutely NO skipping & jumping). Chain twist still happened.

I think twisting happens due boat changing position (including 360° turns) due to currents and wind.

[Cheechako]

Yeah, both twist and stacking is a problem in the PNW. Twist due to all the tidal currents. Overnight I have had chain twist up so badly it's all knuckles! I guess that means you spin around all night in some spots.

I had this happen in the Bahamas when I chose to use a Bahamian moor with two anchors overnight in a cut that had current! It took over an hour to up anchor and sort the two twisted rodes out the next am! Haven't used a B Moor since.

For deep anchorages, I would often take time on calm mornings to allow the anchor to spin the chain twist out by hanging after it's off the bottom.

Yes chain goes through the gypsy fairly well with a twist, but you can tell most the time.... eventually it will 'jump'.

I have not had bad issues with stacked chain when lowering anchor though, usually it will come out if you power down in spots. Stacking was more of an issue when it jams the windlass due to stack height for me.

Swivels simply dont work. Probably because of the load on the swivel bearing surfaces.

On one boat I removed the chain locker bottom for more depth. I didnt gain much volume but that few inches of space and depth was just enough to improve things. The chain started laying under the V berth a bit.