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captain58sailin · 02-06-2011, 23:05

In the northern latitudes life jackets are not intended to save lives; it is to make finding the corpses easier so the families don't have to go on not knowing what happened to their beloved ones.

captain58sailin · 02-06-2011, 23:06

Most male corpses recovered are found with their flies open, so you should just pee on the deck and let the salt water wash it away.

**James S** · 02-06-2011, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

In the northern latitudes life jackets are not intended to save lives; it is to make finding the corpses easier so the families don't have to go on not knowing what happened to their beloved ones.

I thought that's what bloating was for?

**Paul Elliott** · 02-06-2011, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

In the northern latitudes life jackets are not intended to save lives; it is to make finding the corpses easier so the families don't have to go on not knowing what happened to their beloved ones.

That's a cute saying, and actually not a bad attitude to have (I tell my crew that their PFDs and PLBs are so we can recover their cold, bloated body), but even in cold and rough waters PFDs can save lives. It's no guarantee, but they can make a difference. That's a fact.

As for PFD tanlines, we just tell everyone we wear bras while at sea. It's kind of kinky, but what happens on the boat stays on the boat.

captain58sailin · 02-06-2011, 23:29

Around my part of the world, you have about 15 minutes before hypothermia sets in and after that you are in real trouble. Having survived a man overboard experience with out a life jacket, for over an hour, I still have reservations about mandatory life jacket use. It is the whole "There ought to be a law" mentality that make me tired. If you are foolish or unlucky in Alaska, usually mother nature will weed you out, life jacket or no. Most people don't know what to do with the life that was given to them in the first place.

**Paul Elliott** · 03-06-2011, 00:04

You will notice that I said nothing about mandatory use. Voluntary use is a good thing. Wearing a PFD might add ten minutes to that fifteen minutes you mention. I'll gladly take an extra five. I don't think that minimizing the value of a PFD is a useful way to oppose a mandatory law. There are many valid arguments, but IMHO this isn't one of them.

(Or was that 15 min with a PFD? Doesn't matter, the PFD might help.)

captain58sailin · 03-06-2011, 00:16

Paul, it doesn't matter, whether you have a life jacket or not, the hypothermia kills you, even with immersion suits, which are said to give you 8 to 24 extra hours and they are mandatory on commercial vessels north of 45 degrees latitude, (I believe that to be the correct latitude). A lot of times when people go in the water here; the cold water coming into contact with the back of the head causes a reflexive exhalation and the person goes down, their muscles cramp or they just have a heart attack due to the shock of it.

sctpc · 03-06-2011, 00:24

why not I got a $60 fine per person by our NANNYSTATE Victoria Australia and $260 for not having flairs and that was to get to my boat on a mooring 50m in a mooring field.

We Australians have no rights why should you.

**Paul Elliott** · 03-06-2011, 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

Paul, it doesn't matter, whether you have a life jacket or not, the hypothermia kills you, even with immersion suits, which are said to give you 8 to 24 extra hours and they are mandatory on commercial vessels north of 45 degrees latitude, (I believe that to be the correct latitude). A lot of times when people go in the water here; the cold water coming into contact with the back of the head causes a reflexive exhalation and the person goes down, their muscles cramp or they just have a heart attack due to the shock of it.

I actually know this stuff, at least in theory (not through personal experience in Alaska, but through Safety at Sea training). Of course the hypothermia, the shock, the water inhalation can, and eventually will kill you. In rough water conditions a PFD may not help at all. If you don't get rescued quickly, nothing, not even an immersion suit is going to save you.

But I'm not so interested in the situations where a PFD isn't going to help. Let's talk about the cases where it can.

All I'm saying is that with a PFD (and under the proper conditions) you are able to float in a position that reduces your heat expenditure, and without a PFD you burn significant extra energy trying to stay afloat. Thus the minutes of extra time for a successful rescue. Can't we at least agree on this?

hellosailor · 03-06-2011, 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by capngeo

By all (including adults) in any vessel less than 18'!

Boat/US Story

I may have to ask PETA to bring a lawsuit banning the use of PFDs entirely, as they may cause starvation among the crab population. At least to ban PFDs until a complete environmental impact study on the long term effect of corpses on crab and marine worm populations can be completed. And those eel-like fish, what do they call them? They like to burrow into corpses too.

Upsets the natural order of things, these PFDs do.

captain465 · 03-06-2011, 10:49

Hagfish

**boatman61** · 03-06-2011, 10:57

OK.. time to ruffle things a bit...
my foul weather gear/PFD is a wet suit... full with boots N of 40 and shortie S of that line...
On deck with a wind proof jacket works a treat keeping me warm and comfortable... need a pee... no problem... just do it then flush with warm water poured in at the neck.... no baggy stuff to snag as I move about...

Fall in... I float a treat and can swim effectivly while you guys in your designer Gill/Helly whatever suits n boots flounder helplessly...

Wierd but wonderful....

Noname1 · 03-06-2011, 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pblais

It's easy to argue the slippery slope but it's not on the radar now.

Surely sir you jest.
We have been skidding down the slope for years.
What part of your live is not regulated and becoming more so?

Noname1 · 03-06-2011, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by sctpc

why not I got a $60 fine per person by our NANNYSTATE Victoria Australia and $260 for not having flairs and that was to get to my boat on a mooring 50m in a mooring field.

We Australians have no rights why should you.

growing up in the 60's I was under the impression Oz was full of rugged folks who weren't easy to push around .... I guess I watched too much Skippy.