Gas can ‘Safety’ spout fix

[sailingabe41ds]

These laws were created by people who never had to use a gas container.....its beneath them.

abe

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by Panama Red

...I don’t see the purpose of the California spout? ...

The purpose is twofold:

1. The spouts have automatic closing and overfill prevention "flaps" (or whatever the vendor designed for the purpose). These are supposed to stop gas from coming out of the can when your lawnmower gets full - just the way modern pumps work at gas stations when filling your car. That way you don't overfill the tank and spill some gas. The same automatic closure also keeps the can sealed when the user is too lazy (or loses) a cap that was meant to go on the can when not in use.

2. There is no vent on these gas cans, venting is through the spout. The purpose is to catch the gasoline vapors that are in your tank and are being displaced by the liquid you are pouring into the tank.

In theory, you pour liquid gas into the tank, and the gas vapors in your tank go back into your Jerry can instead of being released to the atmosphere. When you go to the gas station to fill your Jerry can the vapor recovery nozzle there does the same thing and the vapors in your Jerry can are transferred to the station's underground tank. When the truck comes to fill the station tank same thing happens again. Finally, the vapors end back up in the tank at the refinery, and when the refinery tank is filling the vapors are collected in the vapor recovery system, condensed, and turned back into liquid gasoline.

In addition to the spout the regulations set permeation standards that required the use of better plastics in the construction of plastic cans.

The end goal - less liquid/vapor released to the environment as pollution, and less wasted fuel. Back when the rules were put in place the CARB (California Air Resources Board) estimated that gas cans accounted for 87 tons per day of reactive organic gases being released to the atmosphere. Whether or not they're effective at their intended task....

[Jammer]

We have been using type I safety cans for gasoline for about 10 years now and find that they are an improvement over everything else. Better fire safety, longer lasting, low permeation/low stink, not prone to leaking, easy to pour from. Better than the 1970s thin metal cans with donkey dick metal spouts that were hard to clean. Better than the 1990s plastic cans with the plastic spouts with caps that broke off. Better than the CARB-era spouts that everyone justifiably hates.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

The purpose is twofold:

1. The spouts have automatic closing and overfill prevention "flaps" (or whatever the vendor designed for the purpose). These are supposed to stop gas from coming out of the can when your lawnmower gets full - just the way modern pumps work at gas stations when filling your car. That way you don't overfill the tank and spill some gas. The same automatic closure also keeps the can sealed when the user is too lazy (or loses) a cap that was meant to go on the can when not in use.

2. There is no vent on these gas cans, venting is through the spout. The purpose is to catch the gasoline vapors that are in your tank and are being displaced by the liquid you are pouring into the tank.

In theory, you pour liquid gas into the tank, and the gas vapors in your tank go back into your Jerry can instead of being released to the atmosphere. When you go to the gas station to fill your Jerry can the vapor recovery nozzle there does the same thing and the vapors in your Jerry can are transferred to the station's underground tank. When the truck comes to fill the station tank same thing happens again. Finally, the vapors end back up in the tank at the refinery, and when the refinery tank is filling the vapors are collected in the vapor recovery system, condensed, and turned back into liquid gasoline.

In addition to the spout the regulations set permeation standards that required the use of better plastics in the construction of plastic cans.

The end goal - less liquid/vapor released to the environment as pollution, and less wasted fuel. Back when the rules were put in place the CARB (California Air Resources Board) estimated that gas cans accounted for 87 tons per day of reactive organic gases being released to the atmosphere. Whether or not they're effective at their intended task....

Are you seriously trying to justify these cans or what? So for the rest of the sane who are watching, the CARB cans are utter crap. I do not believe they reduce anything and my engineering degree suggest that the designer actually didn’t do any real world testing. I will be cutting my spout up this weekend and converting it back to something usable.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

The purpose is twofold:

1. The spouts have automatic closing and overfill prevention "flaps" (or whatever the vendor designed for the purpose). These are supposed to stop gas from coming out of the can when your lawnmower gets full - just the way modern pumps work at gas stations when filling your car. That way you don't overfill the tank and spill some gas. The same automatic closure also keeps the can sealed when the user is too lazy (or loses) a cap that was meant to go on the can when not in use.

2. There is no vent on these gas cans, venting is through the spout. The purpose is to catch the gasoline vapors that are in your tank and are being displaced by the liquid you are pouring into the tank.

In theory, you pour liquid gas into the tank, and the gas vapors in your tank go back into your Jerry can instead of being released to the atmosphere. When you go to the gas station to fill your Jerry can the vapor recovery nozzle there does the same thing and the vapors in your Jerry can are transferred to the station's underground tank. When the truck comes to fill the station tank same thing happens again. Finally, the vapors end back up in the tank at the refinery, and when the refinery tank is filling the vapors are collected in the vapor recovery system, condensed, and turned back into liquid gasoline.

In addition to the spout the regulations set permeation standards that required the use of better plastics in the construction of plastic cans.

The end goal - less liquid/vapor released to the environment as pollution, and less wasted fuel. Back when the rules were put in place the CARB (California Air Resources Board) estimated that gas cans accounted for 87 tons per day of reactive organic gases being released to the atmosphere. Whether or not they're effective at their intended task....

Outside of Florida there are virtually no vapor recovery gas station nozzles. There is zero vapor recovery with the crappy new cans.

The California cans are to prevent spills if a can is tipped over, not vapor recovery or automatic shutoff.

Balance five gallons of gas on a knee while attempting to open a safety spout and magically use your other two hands to tilt the handle-less can to pour into the day tank on a thrashing dinghy or a deck port.

In the end, I have spilled more gasoline with one fuel transfer using a California can than the total of my entire previous life.

[Panama Red]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

The end goal - less liquid/vapor released to the environment as pollution, and less wasted fuel. Back when the rules were put in place the CARB (California Air Resources Board) estimated that gas cans accounted for 87 tons per day of reactive organic gases being released to the atmosphere. Whether or not they're effective at their intended task....

100% support the end goal. I like the idea of vapor recovery as in the long run I get more fuel in the tank. But:

1. My state does not have vapor recovery systems at the gas stations.
2. I did a test and I understand how the system would work for a car, but it does not recover vapors for 3 inch openings in my: mower, generator, tractor or pressure washer. I never even thought about filling my car from a jerry can, it is too easy just to drive to a gas station.
3. My marina does not have a vapor recovery system.

So the CARB compliant spout sounds good, but in reality does not solve the problem.

One reason Americans don’t trust government is because laws are passed that cause complications and increased costs in daily life without solving the problem.

FYI: I am a licensed Drone pilot, and the FAA requires me to have a remote ID on my 8 ounce R/C airplane. Nobody to include the FAA knows what a remote ID system is or how to get one.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

The purpose is twofold:

1. The spouts have automatic closing and overfill prevention "flaps" (or whatever the vendor designed for the purpose). These are supposed to stop gas from coming out of the can when your lawnmower gets full - just the way modern pumps work at gas stations when filling your car. That way you don't overfill the tank and spill some gas. The same automatic closure also keeps the can sealed when the user is too lazy (or loses) a cap that was meant to go on the can when not in use.

2. There is no vent on these gas cans, venting is through the spout. The purpose is to catch the gasoline vapors that are in your tank and are being displaced by the liquid you are pouring into the tank.

In theory, you pour liquid gas into the tank, and the gas vapors in your tank go back into your Jerry can instead of being released to the atmosphere. When you go to the gas station to fill your Jerry can the vapor recovery nozzle there does the same thing and the vapors in your Jerry can are transferred to the station's underground tank. When the truck comes to fill the station tank same thing happens again. Finally, the vapors end back up in the tank at the refinery, and when the refinery tank is filling the vapors are collected in the vapor recovery system, condensed, and turned back into liquid gasoline.

In addition to the spout the regulations set permeation standards that required the use of better plastics in the construction of plastic cans.

The end goal - less liquid/vapor released to the environment as pollution, and less wasted fuel. Back when the rules were put in place the CARB (California Air Resources Board) estimated that gas cans accounted for 87 tons per day of reactive organic gases being released to the atmosphere. Whether or not they're effective at their intended task....

Spoken like the proverbial teacher who can't do...and I'm sure the committee setting up the design plans probably were never forced to use these monstrosities.

Now in reality:
- When pouring, it's so awkward, you spill a few ounces each time because it takes 3-4 hands to operate while lifting and tilting the gas can.
- The built in vents don't work well, so it surges and I can smell vapors, so it's not capturing them.
- Most gas stations don't have vapor recovery nozzles and even when they do, most people put it in just far enough so they can see around it and keep the metal end in contact with the container to avoid static buildup...net effect, any trapped vapors in the gas can are displaced by the liquid into the air around the gas station.

[Nord Sal]

I honestly believe that the new style spouts result in the emission of MORE fuel into the environment than did the old designs.

[Wallaby]

Get rid of the spouts--more likely to spill on a boat. Try balancing 50 pounds on a spout with 3-4 ft seas. Use a regular screw-on lid and a jiggler. https://superjiggler.com/


If you inert the plastic tube into the fuel-tank fill line, you will hear the fuel stop running and can stop the flow before it overflows.

[thinwater]

Until you have used a Surecan you don't know what accurate filling is like.


I'm 60 and I've used all sorts. The early CARB spouts sucked, but I don't understand this rabid defense of the older cans; they were hardly perfect, just simple. Some of the newer spouts are simply better than the old school spouts. Unless you've used the best ones, you don't know. I have old cans that I saved because I disliked the CARB spouts when they cam out, but now I no longer use them, because by comparison to my new cans, they suck.



The other advantage of new cans is they are low permeation. Less stink.

[ArmyDaveNY]

I just took a drill with a large diameter bit and drilled out the innards of the spout. Granted there is no vent but it really isn't much of an issue. More often than not I just use a siphon.


As others have said, it was a really dumb idea since it causes far more spills than it prevented.

[Bill Seal]

If you condensed all the vapor in a 5 gallon container of saturated air, how much liquid would you get?

[bailsout]

I have a big old metal funnel with a screen at the bottom of the basin. I remove the new spout from the can and pour it directly into the funnel. Easier if I only put 4 gallons in the five gallon “can”.

[Panama Red]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

Are you seriously trying to justify these cans or what? So for the rest of the sane who are watching, the CARB cans are utter crap. I do not believe they reduce anything and my engineering degree suggest that the designer actually didn’t do any real world testing. I will be cutting my spout up this weekend and converting it back to something usable.

I asked what was the purpose of the CARB spout.

Dsanduril just explained the purpose of the CARB spout and in my view is not justifying the engineering of the spout.

Dsanduril is not the bad guy, the CARB spout engineer who designed the spout and the corporation that approved the design is at fault.

As a former Army weapons testing operations engineer, I watched the debate between the human factors engineers and the hardware engineers. Human factors engineers were concerned if a human under adverse conditions could operate the system. Hardware engineers could care less.

Over the years I have accumulated three generations of the CARB spouts. None worked, and none came with a video or instructions on how to use them. I am casually looking forward to CARB spout gen IV.

[skipgundlach]

We live on a boat, full time.

I've been through several generations of non-spill, with which, all, I was displeased and annoyed.

However, my latest pair, one each Scepter and Midwest Can, are a peach. In the case of Midwest, they even shaped the flame protector insert such that the nozzle can be inserted, and the can capped.

Both are click-to-lock, and the 5G can may be inverted with nothing coming out. The spouts both have sizeable, L ended (won't slip off whatever you're leaning it on), ledges to sit on the edge (however your edge looks; deck fill roughly flat, or any protruding lip - like a dinghy fuel can), and then you just either push down, or allow the weight of the fuel to push in the spout, at which point it dumps. Lifting shuts it off firmly, and repetition is as simple as pushing the lever which latches it, cuz it opens/stays with a 'click.'

I now like it for the no-worries refill (4 5G jugs) of diesel at sea, or topoff (dinghy fuel, honda generator, etc.), despite that the flow rate is nowhere near a vented can with a direct spout.

The Scepter will require you to remove the flame guard (easy with a pair of needlenosed pliers) to store the nozzle, and when I bought mine, they didn't come with the flat cap to allow sealing with the spout inside. Scepter sent me caps, gratis. They may have figured out that it's a desirable item, even if only to cap the spout itself for when the can is left pour-enabled (spout out all the time) to keep out dust and anything else. But subject to loss that way...

I mourned the death of my last vented gas can. But now I no longer gripe, as I have entire control over the output, with no fear of spill or drip as I remove the spout.

However, I HAVE found that the supposed shutoff (via fuel reaching the vent portion of the spout) isn't adequately quick to shut off when I'm fueling my Honda eu2000i, so I've taken to a quick count measurement (in my case, count to 60) as the volume is always constant if I've run it dry.

YMMV but look for the yellow spout on the Scepter cans; the pushbutton plastic is black; the spout on the Midwest is black and the button is red. Both click very firmly and obviously when the spout is enabled, but no fuel flows, even upside down, until you push the nozzle in with the catch on the spout. Releasing that pressure on the part which sits on the opening of your fill instantly results in a lock closed, not to allow fuel again until you push the button.

I like them.