Chineese or cheap forced air disel heaters vs expencive alternatives

[CaptTom]

Had these Chinese $200 units been available when I was looking, I would gladly have bought one (or two) compared to the $600 Planar. Now you've got me thinking about buying one for the forward (guest) cabin. My only problem would be locating the exhaust thru-hull.

I've probably said this a hundred times, but to me the real fear is how hot the exhaust hose gets. It absolutely has to be protected from getting close to anything flammable, which on a fiberglass boat is almost everything. I ended up buying high-temp manifold heat shield which is apparently used on race cars. The cheap insulating sleeves you can buy for the SS flex exhaust hose probably work great in a tractor-trailer or camper, where you just direct the hose down through the metal frame of the vehicle. No way would it do any good on a boat where the hose is snaked around behind cabinetry to a thru-hull.

Originally Posted by warrior 90

For example here is the motor assembly (also for Ebersbacher) 36 $
https://www.banggood.com/12V-24V-Mot...r_warehouse=CN

First I'd heard of Banggood. Interesting name, but it looks like a good source for lots of Chinese-made products. I can see I'll be checking them out a lot when I'm looking for hard-to-find parts.

[DeepFrz]

Here is an interesting video to watch before turning the heater down and running on low.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wrfEuQKBIM

[newhaul]

I have the cheap Chinese 5k unit I am very happy with its performance cost less than $150 USD installed.
The only thing to remember to do is run it on full blast for about 30 min per week during the heating season . To forestall the buildup of carbon deposits that will hinder the efficiency and operation .
There are some pictures of the unit and the install on my refit page. On pages 5 and 6.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-187721-5.html
I have both the manual thermostat unit and the electronic programmable one.
Prefer the manual unit . ( less power used)

[agb512]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

I have a Russian "Planar" unit. They're very well regarded, with good reviews wherever you look. It works well. It appears and functions identically to the name brand units which cost 3 times more.

There's nothing particularly "marine" about any of them. You'll want to use SS for the exhaust, connected to a proper through-hull, and keep the run short and away from anything combustible.

Look at it this way: you can buy two Planars, keep one for a spare, and still pay 1/3 less.

I figure if anyone knows how to deal with the cold, it's the Russians!

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

Had these Chinese $200 units been available when I was looking, I would gladly have bought one (or two) compared to the $600 Planar. Now you've got me thinking about buying one for the forward (guest) cabin. My only problem would be locating the exhaust thru-hull.

I've probably said this a hundred times, but to me the real fear is how hot the exhaust hose gets. It absolutely has to be protected from getting close to anything flammable, which on a fiberglass boat is almost everything. I ended up buying high-temp manifold heat shield which is apparently used on race cars. The cheap insulating sleeves you can buy for the SS flex exhaust hose probably work great in a tractor-trailer or camper, where you just direct the hose down through the metal frame of the vehicle. No way would it do any good on a boat where the hose is snaked around behind cabinetry to a thru-hull.


First I'd heard of Banggood. Interesting name, but it looks like a good source for lots of Chinese-made products. I can see I'll be checking them out a lot when I'm looking for hard-to-find parts.

Not a long time ago I would have also decided for the Planar because it seemed to be the only alternative to the 2000 $ gold sticker models. But to be honest, I get desperate with the arctic sensations. I would even spend the two thousand if I have no other choice.

Wish this winter season lot´s of cruising kitties are in a better mood

Yes, the exhaust gas temperature... till now I also can´t find any other critical issues. This certainly has to be addressed. It will also cost some additional money. The heat shield You used looks good. How does it feel on the touch ?
When I look at the example of a Dickinson heater I believe things are more severe and much more expensive.
There are some kind of exotic idears of a concept in my mind.
I was wondering if it would be easier and better to cool down the exhaust gases instead of dealing with the heat since it costs money anyway. I could think of using the heat of the exhaust gases. Of course that would have to be with a close to off the shelf component and a decent look to be attractive.
But before taking that any further I would like to know the actual operating temperature to see if it´s really worth while. I could not find that info till now.
Did You ever measure it ?....or maybe there is somebody else here on board who did ?

How about the fortunate member Newhaul ?
He is very active since his engine turns over on the first crank)))
Hahaha, and now he seems to have lot´s of time to talk about all kinds of things.
Let´s hope this jewel keeps cranking

Two units ? I can imagine in Main it can get very chilly.
Also makes a lot of sense on a catamaran. Why wasting the energy if their is nobody in the other hull and if there are some problems with one unit You just exchange with the other one to buy some time till a more convenient moment.

Cheers

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by warrior 90

Yes, the exhaust gas temperature... till now I also can´t find any other critical issues. This certainly has to be addressed. It will also cost some additional money. The heat shield You used looks good. How does it feel on the touch?

First, I looked up my old Amazon order to verify I mentioned the correct product. It's Heatshield Products 170001 Heatshield Armor 1/4" Thick x 6" Wide x 5' Long Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield.

The metal layer is like very thick aluminum foil. Easily bent and wrapped around anything, and holds it's shape once there. But there are metal wire tie thingies you can get to hold it, too. It cuts easily with scissors. It's insulating properties are fantastic. I have no worries about any section of exhaust pipe this stuff covers. It's almost perfect for the job.

Originally Posted by warrior 90

I was wondering if it would be easier and better to cool down the exhaust gases instead of dealing with the heat since it costs money anyway. I could think of using the heat of the exhaust gases. Of course that would have to be with a close to off the shelf component and a decent look to be attractive.

I thought about it too. The ideal would be flexible, double-wall exhaust hose. I didn't find anything like that, at least in the sizes and materials this would need. Also, there's a thermal shut-down issue if the combustion chamber gets too hot. It's really designed to be used in trucks where the exhaust goes a short way, straight down. Insulation probably makes this problem worse.

Originally Posted by warrior 90

But before taking that any further I would like to know the actual operating temperature to see if it´s really worth while. I could not find that info till now.
Did You ever measure it ?....or maybe there is somebody else here on board who did ?

I did measure the exhaust hose temperature. But I didn't write it down. It scared the crap out of me. Like over 700F. Nearly red-hot.

Originally Posted by warrior 90

Two units ? I can imagine in Main it can get very chilly.

I was thinking of keeping the second as a spare. Easier to make a quick swap-out when it fails on some cold evening, than to sit up all night trying to make a repair, or waiting for replacement parts from Russia or the EU.

But with the $200 Chinese units, I'm thinking of heating the V-berth, too. It doesn't really get any of the heat from the aft cabin where the Planar is now.

[warrior 90]

Holy crap)) 700F, nearly red hot
THKs for the info.
Well somehow I did expect it. How else is it possible this thing is pushing this much heat.

Thermal shut down ?
I have seen some people putting little extra mufflers in the exhaust line.. I don´t think think this is such a good idear since it creates more back pressure. I believe an easy evacuation of the exhaust gases is important. )) The shorter the tube, the better !!
I also don´t wanna create another additional bulky heat spot !

When it comes to bring down the noise I would prefer an extra wrap around the hose with Your heat shield product. Maybe that will do the trick. I looked at it up on Amazon with Your link. I like it. Of course it will never be possible to completely eliminate it.

Now to idears and concepts.
Don´t have my own unit to make proper tests but looking at the rather thin walled flexible exhaust hose I guess with distance there is a fast gradual temp drop and the really high temps are at the first meter (40 inches) close from the unit.
How about curling a copper tube around it with a cooling fluid. That should not be such a big deal. Depending on flow rate that should really control the critical levels and might simultaniously bring down the temps towards the end of the exhaust hose to an insignificant level. Now we have the heat in the cooling fluid. Maybe it could be used for hot water. Also a little heat exchanger with a fan would give further possibility of heating a space without the hassle of bulky ducts. Something like that can be bought of the shelf. For example ... There are space heaters that run off the engine cooling system. Had one in the back of my RV. Worked pretty good and helps further air circulation. However I would only think of smaller spaces.

I was thinking of keeping the second as a spare. Easier to make a quick swap-out when it fails on some cold evening, than to sit up all night trying to make a repair, or waiting for replacement parts from Russia or the EU.

Absolutely agree. Don´t like the nightmare of shivering in a cold boat trying to get the heater going.

with the $200 Chinese units, I'm thinking of heating the V-berth, too. It doesn't really get any of the heat from the aft cabin where the Planar is now.

Yes with 36 feet You have quiet a lot of space to heat and boats in general have a poor insulation. So there are some limits as to what such a small unit can do. You might have no other choice than a second unit if You really have cozy demands.
However it also has to do a lot with the ducts and distribution. I am sure there are some heat loses running them through cold space like cabinets.. Maybe it helps if You heat up the boat with the Planar and then You walk around with a thermometer to locate the cold spots. That should indicate how to proceed.

How are You getting along with the humidity so far ?

[Pizzazz]

Here is my installation with a video for the outside noise.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

First, I looked up my old Amazon order to verify I mentioned the correct product. It's Heatshield Products 170001 Heatshield Armor 1/4" Thick x 6" Wide x 5' Long Exhaust Pipe Heat Shield.

The metal layer is like very thick aluminum foil. Easily bent and wrapped around anything, and holds it's shape once there. But there are metal wire tie thingies you can get to hold it, too. It cuts easily with scissors. It's insulating properties are fantastic. I have no worries about any section of exhaust pipe this stuff covers. It's almost perfect for the job.



I thought about it too. The ideal would be flexible, double-wall exhaust hose. I didn't find anything like that, at least in the sizes and materials this would need. Also, there's a thermal shut-down issue if the combustion chamber gets too hot. It's really designed to be used in trucks where the exhaust goes a short way, straight down. Insulation probably makes this problem worse.



I did measure the exhaust hose temperature. But I didn't write it down. It scared the crap out of me. Like over 700F. Nearly red-hot.



I was thinking of keeping the second as a spare. Easier to make a quick swap-out when it fails on some cold evening, than to sit up all night trying to make a repair, or waiting for replacement parts from Russia or the EU.

But with the $200 Chinese units, I'm thinking of heating the V-berth, too. It doesn't really get any of the heat from the aft cabin where the Planar is now.

question what heat setting was the unit on at the time you took the measurements ?
Secondly where did you take the temperature measurements at .
On my thermostat there are 10 setpoints and on 3 I can hold my hand on the exhaust pipe at 2 ft from the heater. It becomes hot to the touch at setting of 6 after a half hour running.
But still manageable.
I don't have an ir gun to take temps with on the boat . So rely on the hands on approach for now.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

Here is my installation with a video for the outside noise. Attachment 180709Attachment 180710Attachment 180711

install looks good .
One question considering the exhaust goes up above the exhaust point on the heater did you install a condensate loop ?

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by warrior 90

Thermal shut down ?
I believe an easy evacuation of the exhaust gases is important. The shorter the tube, the better !!

How are You getting along with the humidity so far ?

Yes, I think the long run (+/- 6-8' or 2m) is part of the problem. It looks like the designers expected a very short exhaust hose, straight down to the underside of a vehicle, not snaked up, down and horizontally through a boat.

I don't live aboard, but in my experience humidity is always an issue in cold weather. This is the big reason I don't work in the engine room in winter, even on a mild day. My breath condenses on all the cold iron.

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

Here is my installation with a video for the outside noise.

Nicely done, thanks!

Originally Posted by newhaul

question what heat setting was the unit on at the time you took the measurements ?
Secondly where did you take the temperature measurements at

I shot the exhaust hose within a foot of where it exits, and obviously it was cooler farther along. I had it at a high setting, and to be honest don't recall the exact numbers, only that it was shockingly high and close to red-hot.

Again, I think good exhaust flow is the answer here. I've thought about putting a small fan on the intake, but would have to figure out where to tap off the power for it.

Originally Posted by newhaul

One question considering the exhaust goes up above the exhaust point on the heater did you install a condensate loop ?

I brought my hose up above the through-hull, then back down, to prevent any outside water from entering. Condensate should be minimal in the part of the hose closest to the heater, but it's true it could settle at the bottom of the "U" going up to the heater (exhaust is on the bottom.)

[Opie91]

I bought one of the 5K units with the digital control and remote this year to replace a 5K unit purchased last year. The old unit worked fine, just wanted the digital control and remote. The new unit was only $165 delivered in 5 days. Now I have a complete spare part inventory

The exhaust as mentioned above is pretty poor. To take care this I added a few things that ended up costing more than the heater:


Exhaust wrap: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-50Ft-Lava...item56924a0060

Exhaust elbow with condensate loop: https://www.ebay.com/itm/EBERSPACHER...item33ea0e4aff

Better exhaust clamps: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-pcs-T-hea...item4b07ecb61a

Exhaust thru hull: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stainless-s...item1ed8a1e38e

Exhaust Hose (Stainless 304): https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/124/274


Did ditch the silencer that was included with the kit as the exhaust noise is barley noticeable even without the muffler.

With the wrap on the exhaust hose you can put your hand on the hose, it is hot but it does not burn.

[Opie91]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkdF4F-k3VI&t=377s

This guy does a pretty good job explaining the digital control.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by warrior 90

I have seen some people putting little extra mufflers in the exhaust line.. I don´t think think this is such a good idear since it creates more back pressure. I believe an easy evacuation of the exhaust gases is important. )) The shorter the tube, the better !!

Nope, there is a spec'd min / max not to be messed with, needs to be in range for the **right** backpressure.

Use the one included, ask for specs, or use the spec from whomever they copied, Planar?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Nope, there is a spec'd min / max not to be messed with, needs to be in range for the **right** backpressure.

Use the one included, ask for specs, or use the spec from whomever they copied, Planar?

some come with mufflers some don't its all in the Install kit .
The muffler is little more than just a resonance chamber.