Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-01-2020, 12:02   #1
Registered User
 
SVTatia's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Boat: Luders 33 - hull 23
Posts: 1,209
Buying a used windvane - worth the risk?

I am currently looking to buy a used windvane, but I am a cheap sailor and cannot afford to pay twice for the same thing. At the same time eager to avoid the $4K+ outlay for a new unit. Crazy, eh?

Is buying a used windvane a shot in the dark?

Looking at used units, prices vary from $1K to 3K. There are risks and the savings can evaporate rather quickly if not careful, but unless you have the selling unit measurements, how can you be careful?
Buying long distance or online is hard to be precise, hence the increased risk of spending more money later to make the unit fit the boat.

The problem is if we try to obtain further information and measurements before committing, someone else will just jump ahead and buy the unit. So, you need to act quickly, which multiplies the risk.

Peter Foerthmann, Windpilot’s owner wrote (the emphasys is mine): “Some of the prices asked and paid for sales both private and via eBay are remarkable, which is always great for sellers, but only great for buyers if their purchase turns out to be exactly what they thought they were getting and they don’t end up having to spend even more to arrive at a functional steering system for their particular situation.”

See the entire blog post here.

Even the relative simple units such as the Windpilot, as Peter puts it, consists of several modules to match the original purchase - the Pacific, for example has 5 installation options, 7 rudder shaft lengths, 2 windvane shaft lengths and 5 transmission variants.

So I’d appreciate hearing experiences from people who bought used units and care to share the lessons they learned. Was it worth it? Regrets?
Thanks in advance.
__________________

SVTatia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2020, 16:59   #2
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Miami
Boat: CAL39MKII and EDELCAT33
Posts: 174
Images: 2
Re: Buying a used windvane - worth the risk?

Consider building your own. If cost is an issue, there is a DIY kit for about $500

http://www.windvaneselfsteering.co.u...osts-plans.htm

There is another one all steel for about $1,000
__________________

carlosproa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2020, 17:04   #3
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: St Augustine, FL
Boat: Woods Vardo 34 Cat
Posts: 3,330
Re: Buying a used windvane - worth the risk?

I heard windpilot was possibly in receivership. Considering buying my 5th or 6th used windvane if I find something suitable at the moment.
__________________
@mojomarine1
Boatguy30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2020, 17:06   #4
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: St Augustine, FL
Boat: Woods Vardo 34 Cat
Posts: 3,330
Re: Buying a used windvane - worth the risk?

That's 530 pound Sterling mate! And those things I don't think would hold up long term anything like a monitor or windpilot.

That's why you buy used. Should be 50% of boatshow sale new price and in good useable condition.
__________________
@mojomarine1
Boatguy30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2020, 18:21   #5
Registered User
 
SVTatia's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Boat: Luders 33 - hull 23
Posts: 1,209
Re: Buying a used windvane - worth the risk?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlosproa View Post
Consider building your own. If cost is an issue, there is a DIY kit for about $500

http://www.windvaneselfsteering.co.u...osts-plans.htm

There is another one all steel for about $1,000
Thanks for posting. The problem with building your own is that you could be on for a lot of time trying to tune the thing...
But I'll check for suitablity.

BTW, my boat is 33ft, 12K lbs displacement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
I heard windpilot was possibly in receivership. Considering buying my 5th or 6th used windvane if I find something suitable at the moment.
The 5 or 6 that you bought were a direct fit?

The receivership issue is news to me! I hope its fake...

I am on the same boat so-to-speak, but a good price and a good fit is a matter of being at the right place at the right time....

We'll keep looking, but just don't look where I am looking...
SVTatia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2020, 18:25   #6
Registered User
 
SVTatia's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Boat: Luders 33 - hull 23
Posts: 1,209
Re: Buying a used windvane - worth the risk?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
...That's why you buy used. Should be 50% of boatshow sale new price and in good useable condition.
50% of retail price, you hardly find them at boat shows.
Anyway, not easily found, too much demand, not enough supply.... and then, that 50% could be eliminated if...
SVTatia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2020, 18:43   #7
Registered User
 
Orion Jim's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Noank, Ct. USA
Boat: Cape Dory 31
Posts: 1,683
Images: 8
Re: Buying a used windvane - worth the risk?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTatia View Post
I am currently looking to buy a used windvane, but I am a cheap sailor and cannot afford to pay twice for the same thing. At the same time eager to avoid the $4K+ outlay for a new unit. Crazy, eh?

Is buying a used windvane a shot in the dark?

Looking at used units, prices vary from $1K to 3K. There are risks and the savings can evaporate rather quickly if not careful, but unless you have the selling unit measurements, how can you be careful?
Buying long distance or online is hard to be precise, hence the increased risk of spending more money later to make the unit fit the boat.

The problem is if we try to obtain further information and measurements before committing, someone else will just jump ahead and buy the unit. So, you need to act quickly, which multiplies the risk.

Peter Foerthmann, Windpilot’s owner wrote (the emphasys is mine): “Some of the prices asked and paid for sales both private and via eBay are remarkable, which is always great for sellers, but only great for buyers if their purchase turns out to be exactly what they thought they were getting and they don’t end up having to spend even more to arrive at a functional steering system for their particular situation.”

See the entire blog post here.

Even the relative simple units such as the Windpilot, as Peter puts it, consists of several modules to match the original purchase - the Pacific, for example has 5 installation options, 7 rudder shaft lengths, 2 windvane shaft lengths and 5 transmission variants.

So I’d appreciate hearing experiences from people who bought used units and care to share the lessons they learned. Was it worth it? Regrets?
Thanks in advance.
I bought a used Monitor but it was a huge mistake. I spent nearly the purchase price in repairs within the first year. Live and learn.
I purchased a new Monitor and I was stunned when they offered me a grand as a trade in value for my old unit! When my brand new unit arrived I just put my old unit in the box and put the shipping labels on the box....free return shipping included!
My new unit has been trouble free for five seasons and over six thousand miles. Your Luders and my Cape Dory are very similar, I’m positive a Monitor would be a great addition to your boat. For critical hardware it pays to buy the best.
Orion Jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2020, 19:36   #8
Registered User
 
SVTatia's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Boat: Luders 33 - hull 23
Posts: 1,209
Re: Buying a used windvane - worth the risk?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion Jim View Post
I bought a used Monitor but it was a huge mistake. I spent nearly the purchase price in repairs within the first year. Live and learn.
I purchased a new Monitor and I was stunned when they offered me a grand as a trade in value for my old unit! When my brand new unit arrived I just put my old unit in the box and put the shipping labels on the box....free return shipping included!
My new unit has been trouble free for five seasons and over six thousand miles. Your Luders and my Cape Dory are very similar, I’m positive a Monitor would be a great addition to your boat. For critical hardware it pays to buy the best.
Thanks for sharing the lessons learned. I totally agree with your last sentence and great to hear that a company would reach out and help a client in crisis the way they did.
The only issue I have with the Monitor is the space it takes. No doubt its an excellent windvane, perhaps only behind the Aries by installation numbers? But I'd like to continue to check my options with the "slender" ones if you will...
SVTatia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2020, 09:35   #9
Registered User
 
Rigdaddy's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Georgetown, Exumas
Boat: Hans Christian 41 T
Posts: 96
Re: Buying a used windvane - worth the risk?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion Jim View Post
I bought a used Monitor but it was a huge mistake. I spent nearly the purchase price in repairs within the first year. Live and learn.
I purchased a new Monitor and I was stunned when they offered me a grand as a trade in value for my old unit! When my brand new unit arrived I just put my old unit in the box and put the shipping labels on the box....free return shipping included!
My new unit has been trouble free for five seasons and over six thousand miles. Your Luders and my Cape Dory are very similar, I’m positive a Monitor would be a great addition to your boat. For critical hardware it pays to buy the best.
I also bought a used Monitor, but have been pleased with it from the start. It is an older model, without the "U" shaped brace on the back of the struts. I added the brace myself before I mounted it to the boat. The people at Scanmar are very knowledgeable and helpful. They will send you the requirements for your particular hull, with example pictures from customers' installations.
__________________
Timing is everything
Rigdaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2020, 09:58   #10
Moderator
 
roverhi's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,926
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: Buying a used windvane - worth the risk?

Have bought three used vanes and had no problem with any of them. One I ended up not using and resold to a guy who used it to sail around Hawaii for a couple of years with no problems. Another steered my boat to Hawaii and is still on the boat. The last one works fine but have only used it for day sailing.

If you don't have a transom stern, you need to figure what it will cost to make the mounting hardware. A canoe stern, outboard rudder, swim scoop among others have mounting problems as you can't bolt it directly to the transom. Had to fabricate brackets to run the steering lines for one installation. That was a boat generated issue not specific to the vane. Pulley sheave, and other bearings may wear so need to be checked for too much slop. On the other hand, often things that should move/rotate can be frozen and need to be loosened up/replaced. These are all things a thorough inspection will turn up, just a caution if it's an eBay purchase that you can't inspect. Haven't had anything turn up with any of the vanes I've bought, one from eBay and it's worked fine. Another steered the boat from New England to S. America, through the canal and up to SF.

Wouldn't worry too much about buying used if it's a vane that has been popular. Any kinks will have been worked out so should perform as advertised. That's not a guarantee that the vane will work on your boat but you'd have that problem with a new vane.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a, Pearson 35
'Ms American Pie', Sabre 28 Mark II
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2020, 09:59   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 11
Re: Buying a used windvane - worth the risk?

Now.the windvane has the attention I like the opportuaty to ask for a second.hand Windpilot Pacific Plus 2. Mine is taken.of my ship and I like to have the same back.
Call me 0031 6 515 010 59 or mail shishco@live.nl
Frans van Buuren
FransvanBuuren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2020, 10:16   #12
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Enkhuizen, NL
Boat: Pearson 36-1
Posts: 510
Send a message via Skype™ to George DuBose
Re: Buying a used windvane - worth the risk?

I bought an older, but lightly used Aries in the US and shipped it to Germany. I took it to the Aries factory now in Amsterdam and the young owner of the company looked over, replaced one part and told me it was good to go. He also said the model I had was one of the better productions.

Aside from buying a wheel adapter and some universal blocks to run the control lines to the wheel, I had no other expenses.

I think I paid less than half of a new vane.

Although a Monitor was on the winning boat in the last GGR, I think #2 and #3 had Aries.

The new owner of Aries, Lean Nelis, is a young Dutchman and his service is exemplary.
George DuBose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2020, 10:36   #13
Registered User
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 21,951
Re: Buying a used windvane - worth the risk?

I have bought a used Monitor twice and it was fine. One even came a bunch of spares with it.
I probably would avoid a wind vane with much aluminum on it though. But I suppose it depends on what it looks like.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2020, 10:51   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 165
Re: Buying a used windvane - worth the risk?

Hello



I paid $3200 for a new Cape Horn. I did a fair amount research and got great service! Have not yet installed as I am doing a total rebuild BUT getting close!


Regards
glcalahan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2020, 10:56   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 199
Re: Buying a used windvane - worth the risk?

Many years ago I bought a used Hydrovane for about 1/3 new cost. It had steered a round trip of the Atlantic, Canada, to England and back. I then did a circumnavigation of the world using that Hydrovane and, other than replacing the fabric vane cover and one bearing, the unit was still good. The family that purchased the boat with windvane from me sailed another circumnavigation with it on the same boat.
__________________

Paul Howard is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
buying, wind, windvane

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Buying FEX Call Option as Euro risk insurance BlueBuddha Boat Ownership & Making a Living 27 16-10-2017 04:50
Buying new in France or buying used in the Caribbean? ObiWanSand Multihull Sailboats 33 25-09-2016 06:23
Buying Repo worth the risk? Any experiences? b_mac Powered Boats 20 30-03-2015 00:58
Buying a Used Boat & Risk-Management Macblaze Monohull Sailboats 30 14-03-2015 06:18
Rebuilding Aries Windvane Worth the Effort? sneuman Construction, Maintenance & Refit 9 18-01-2013 07:58

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:28.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.