Boat Bikes -- Some Observations

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

again awesome thanks. BTW, I am riding close to you, out of old town Alexandria, my main ride is the trail down to Mount Vernon (set a PR today ).

Do you agree I should go just regular width mountain bike tires - or you think there is some winter benefit to fat?

One other question - for Thinwater and others with bionic knees . . . .Beth has two such knees and we are not sure what to do about pedals for her. She started with just flat pedals until she got stable on the bike - which she is now and would like better ones - I use cleats but we worry that the twisting motion (to get out of the cleat) might not be good for her knees - anyone have experience with that? The alternative is the old fashion toe cages, but I worry that will trap her foot even more if she starts to slide or tip over. Any advice pedal from those with artificial knees?

Don't use toe clips -- twisting motion to get out, especially in a panic, is much more forceful. And you can't walk in the bloody cleats. I suffered in those in my youth, over thousands of miles of cycle touring, and after going to Shimano system about 15 years ago -- I'll never go back. I threw all my old titanium toe clip cages and Italian leather cleat shoes in the trash.

I would think properly adjusted Shimano system cleats would be fine -- takes very little to snap out of them. The shoes feel great! And you can walk in them when you're off the bike. Much easier to get out of them if you have to stop suddenly and need to put a foot out.

I would think that cycling in cleats will be EASIER on the knees, as you get a much smoother motion. Cycling can be hard on the knees if you push. She should use cleats and develop souplesse, in my opinion, to avoid stress on the knees.

[Dockhead]

Here is a super cool boat bike:



It's similar in concept to my Jetstream EX, but it has no rear derailleur -- all gearing done by the expensive Rohloff internal hub. That's a big advantage for a boat bike, as the protruding derailleur is a PITA. I am guessing it folds much better than my Dahon, which does not fold all that well.

Downside is that it's expensive, much more so than my Jetstream, which was a bargain at less than $3000. The suspension components alone of my bike cost more than half of that. I think Dahon sold it (briefly) as a symbol of prestige and probably lost money on them. It was supposedly designed by Joshua Hon before he left his father's company to found Tern.

[Blue Crab]

Nice wheels to be sure ... except for:

Weight:
21.8 kg (48.1 lb)

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

Nice wheels to be sure ... except for:

Weight:
21.8 kg (48.1 lb)

The Birdy Rohloff is 12kg, about like my Jetstream. Sounds like you're looking at spec for the Tern Electric.

[thomm225]

As long as you aren't a serious cyclist, those little bikes should work out ok

But if you want to sail someplace then cycle the area, you'd probably still need a decent road bike.

On the other hand, if you just want to pedal a few miles for groceries and whatever, most any folding bike should work

I still enjoy the road bikes. You can also get saddle bags for them etc.

I paid around $3,300 for my factory reconditioned 2004 Titanium Litespeed Vortex (Dura Ace) ten speed in 2006 but you can get them now for under a $1,000

And they weigh usually under 16 lbs

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The Birdy Rohloff is 12kg, about like my Jetstream. Sounds like you're looking at spec for the Tern Electric.

Yep. Not sure how I went so wrong there but I'm blaming my phone. Smartphone my butt!

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by thomm225

As long as you aren't a serious cyclist, those little bikes should work out ok

But if you want to sail someplace then cycle the area, you'd probably still need a decent road bike.

On the other hand, if you just want to pedal a few miles for groceries and whatever, most any folding bike should work

I still enjoy the road bikes. You can also get saddle bags for them etc.

I paid around $3,300 for my factory reconditioned 2004 Titanium Litespeed Vortex (Dura Ace) ten speed in 2006 but you can get them now for under a $1,000

And they weigh usually under 16 lbs

I just finnished about 30 miles on my 20" dahon breaking in a new knee brace.
Also the rack on it is rated for 35# . Sits close to the ground so standard saddlebags wont fit quite right so im making my own out of sunbrella ( leftovers) will post pictures when im done with that project

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by thomm225

As long as you aren't a serious cyclist, those little bikes should work out ok

But if you want to sail someplace then cycle the area, you'd probably still need a decent road bike.

On the other hand, if you just want to pedal a few miles for groceries and whatever, most any folding bike should work

...

Granted 90% of American cyclists are just reg folk who ride ~10 miles per year. But some other percentage are serious riders. Check these folks out: Folding Bikes - Bike Forums

[keepondancin]

"One other question - for Thinwater and others with bionic knees . . . .Beth has two such knees and we are not sure what to do about pedals for her. She started with just flat pedals until she got stable on the bike - which she is now and would like better ones - I use cleats but we worry that the twisting motion (to get out of the cleat) might not be good for her knees - anyone have experience with that? The alternative is the old fashion toe cages, but I worry that will trap her foot even more if she starts to slide or tip over. Any advice pedal from those with artificial knees?"

My late wife dealt with knee issues through her adult life due to a trauma. At one point she gained more motion. She decided to ride a bike again after many years. I purchased a nice mountain bike, changed to road tires, and a comfort seat. The pedals where the grippy metal ones common on Mt bikes some years ago. Wearing hiking shoes, she was riding a hard packed trail and just clipped a fence post. Here injured leg was in the up position, max bend, and wasn't able to slide her foot of the petal. She went down, with a twisting motion, foot hung up on the petal and suffered a trimalleolar fracture of the ankle, with two plates, nine screws, and three months recovery. If the TKR isn't a complete success, with no limitations, I would consider staying on a smoother pedal to make it easier to get off the pedals.

[Hyenalaughing]

Do you agree I should go just regular width mountain bike tires - or you think there is some winter benefit to fat?

Short answer: Get regular width mountain tires. I run 35mm on my commuter.

Long answer: Carbide studs are great for icy surfaces, because they'll dig in. If there's a lot of snow powder sitting on top of an icy surface, say greater than 6", studs are useless because your tires won't sink deep enough to get a grip on the ice.

In this case, fatter tires are useful because a) they help you float on top of the snow and b) they typically have fatter knobs that give you more traction in powder.

That said, in Alexandria or any other major East Coast metro areas, roads tend to get plowed relatively quickly, so deep snow is a super rare edge case that I personally don't bother planning for. Icy surfaces that remain after being plowed are a far more likely scenario.

[Hyenalaughing]

As long as you aren't a serious cyclist, those little bikes should work out ok

But if you want to sail someplace then cycle the area, you'd probably still need a decent road bike.

On the other hand, if you just want to pedal a few miles for groceries and whatever, most any folding bike should work

There are a couple of compromise options that I don't believe anyone has mentioned yet.

S&S Couplers

If you've got a nice road or touring bike you'd love to bring along, if its got a metal frame you can get someone to install S&S couplers. Basically, someone saws your frame into two pieces, then welds some nuts onto the split ends so they can be torqued back together.

This lets you then pack your bike into a case that's roughly the size of a single wheel. Here's a nice overview of the process, with video: Bilenky Cycle Works

Rinko

Ok, this is getting into esoteric bicycle lore. If I were cruising full time, with regular longer distance bicycle excursions, I'd bring a randonneur bike. These bikes tend to have light steel frames like many road bikes, but features lightweight luggage capabilities (usually in the form of a handlebar bag) and fatter 650b tires for a smoother ride.

In Japan, there's been a unique packing method called Rinko that's been developed for randonneur bikes - mainly to allow cyclists to bring their bikes with them on trains. You'd be shocked at how efficient and small a bike will pack away using this approach. And the best part about rinko is, unless the S&S coupler route, you don't need to modify the bike at all. Maybe you swap out the pedals for rinko pedals that can be removed without special tools but that's about it.

Check out more details on rinko here: https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/...-a-rinko-bike/

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by thomm225

As long as you aren't a serious cyclist, those little bikes should work out ok

But if you want to sail someplace then cycle the area, you'd probably still need a decent road bike.

On the other hand, if you just want to pedal a few miles for groceries and whatever, most any folding bike should work

I still enjoy the road bikes. You can also get saddle bags for them etc.

I paid around $3,300 for my factory reconditioned 2004 Titanium Litespeed Vortex (Dura Ace) ten speed in 2006 but you can get them now for under a $1,000

And they weigh usually under 16 lbs

I don't think you've been reading the thread.

I can go just as far as you on my 20" Jetstream, and just as fast except downhill. I knock out 50 miles in an afternoon without breaking a sweat, and a century would be no problem either, if I could take the time for it. I use the folding bike for longer rides as well as getting groceries.

The wheel size does not affect anything you would notice except ride compliance, and gyroscopic effect. The former is dealt with by using a full suspension; the latter you have to live with. That was exactly the formula of the original Moulton bike -- small wheels and full suspension. I believe some bicycle speed records were set with Moulton bikes which still stand.

[Kenomac]

Does the Dahon Jetstream lock into the folded position, or does it just hang loose in sort of an accordion fashion? It's difficult to tell from any of the youtube videos. Any chance you can make and post a video demonstrating function?

The beauty of the Brompton, is that everything locks into place when folded and it takes less than 20 seconds to fold or unfold.

Here's the best I could find on the Dahon:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdfo_lCcoAE

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Does the Dahon Jetstream lock into the folded position, or does it just hang loose in sort of an accordion fashion? It's difficult to tell from any of the youtube videos. Any chance you can make and post a video demonstrating function?

The beauty of the Brompton, is that everything locks into place when folded and it takes less than 20 seconds to fold or unfold.

The worst feature of my Jetstream by far, which I think I've mentioned, is that it "hangs loose" in an incredibly awkward mess when it's folded. It's really nasty to handle when folded.

Yes, when I'm doing that is when Brompton envy sets in. Not only do Brommies lock together, but the rear triangle also swings out of the way to make an incredibly compact package. You can't beat a Brommie for compact stowage.

The flip side of that is that the Jetstream has an extremely rigid, rather massive frame, I swear it is more rigid than any of the expensive road bikes I used to ride. With the bigger wheels and 27 gears it makes a very competent long distance bike.

Just need to figure out some way to improve its behavior when folded. It came with an aftermarket magnet lock thingie which I ignored and never installed; I'll try to dig it up. And maybe some velcro straps to tame the front wheel and forks. Or maybe just throw it into its bag, which I never use. Hmmmmm.


My Jetstream, by the way, is not at all like the one in your video. It's an EX:



which was only produced for a couple of years.

The suspension is the German-A air spring system, which is brilliant. The other components are all SRAM. I toy with the idea of acquiring a Rohloff hub for it and getting rid of the rear derailleur.

[Dockhead]

Another long-legged folding bike, good for serious bike touring:

https://www.bikefriday.com/folding-bikes/

One thing I love about Bike Fridays is they come in a hard case with wheels which can be used as a trailer.

Hard case much better for lazarette or locker storage.

They make an interesting folding road bike:

https://www.bikefriday.com/folding-b...kes/super-pro/