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Old 22-11-2020, 23:18   #1
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Trisail track (or not)

We have are putting new sliders on the main with wheels since the current slides jam.

These are the new ones:


The issue is that they are quite wide and there is not enough room between the mail sail track and the trisail track which is screwed on to the side of the mast.

I think the answer is simple - modify the trisail to slides that fit the main track and remove the trisail track. Note we do not need to remove the main in a storm since we have a spring loaded gate and the main will stack below the gate, so it would be straight forward to attach the trisail.

Here is the existing trisail track I want to remove.

I also think the main track will be much stronger. Have I missed anything?
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Old 22-11-2020, 23:54   #2
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Re: Trisail track (or not)

The only point I would add is that if you are a believer in having and being able to use a trysail in conditions that warrant it, then when reaching this point, trying to slide the trysail in through the gate (which is at some height) and then up the track and keep it all under control until your ready to hoist it, all while it's now blowing 50+ and the seas are mountainous and you are shorthanded...

Well I think you get my point.

Having had to this on a race boat, with a full race crew, hauling it up from below (or from it's locker somewhere), to the mast base, and then getting it all rigged up, was quite an exercise in itself - remember it's quite a heavily built sail, is not light weight, and the sail cloth itself is stiff from both this and the lack of use.

Having also done it shorthanded on a 50ft cruising boat while offshore (and yes ended up using it in over 50kn as the weather deteriorated) I can say that I was quite happy to have it already prepared, in it's separate track, sheets on (but not led), and bagged and lashed at the mast base.

So that's some food for thought maybe.

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Old 23-11-2020, 00:45   #3
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Re: Trisail track (or not)

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Originally Posted by jmh2002 View Post
The only point I would add is that if you are a believer in having and being able to use a trysail in conditions that warrant it, then when reaching this point, trying to slide the trysail in through the gate (which is at some height) and then up the track and keep it all under control until your ready to hoist it, all while it's now blowing 50+ and the seas are mountainous and you are shorthanded...

Well I think you get my point.

Having had to this on a race boat, with a full race crew, hauling it up from below (or from it's locker somewhere), to the mast base, and then getting it all rigged up, was quite an exercise in itself - remember it's quite a heavily built sail, is not light weight, and the sail cloth itself is stiff from both this and the lack of use.

Having also done it shorthanded on a 50ft cruising boat while offshore (and yes ended up using it in over 50kn as the weather deteriorated) I can say that I was quite happy to have it already prepared, in it's separate track, sheets on (but not led), and bagged and lashed at the mast base.

So that's some food for thought maybe.

Thank you for the reply. I have never had to use one, so I have to respect your knowledge.

I agreed that if you already had the trisail hooked-up before the storm got too bad you would be far better off than trying to do it in a blow.

If you did not already have it hooked up when you decide to use, I don't see that it would be much better. Yes our gate is up the mast, but you can reach it without standing on anything.

As you say all good food for thought.

Could you dump the main early, stay on the stay sail while you get the trisail up (again early before you need it?)
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Old 23-11-2020, 01:04   #4
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Re: Trisail track (or not)

Another issue with getting rid of the trisail track will make it impossible to hoist the tri whilst hove to, which is the way I would do it if it's blowing.


I agree with the previous poster -- keep the track, rig the tri BEFORE the sea state makes it dangerous. Heave to on a port tack and hoist the tri behind the reefed main.
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Old 23-11-2020, 01:16   #5
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Re: Trisail track (or not)

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Another issue with getting rid of the trisail track will make it impossible to hoist the tri whilst hove to, which is the way I would do it if it's blowing.


I agree with the previous poster -- keep the track, rig the tri BEFORE the sea state makes it dangerous. Heave to on a port tack and hoist the tri behind the reefed main.
Right - but that rules out those roller slides. Maybe some new plastic slides? But at the moment its dangerous when I go to drop the main and it gets stuck halfway up the mast?
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Old 23-11-2020, 01:42   #6
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Re: Trisail track (or not)

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Originally Posted by BigAl.NZ View Post
Right - but that rules out those roller slides. Maybe some new plastic slides? But at the moment its dangerous when I go to drop the main and it gets stuck halfway up the mast?

Maybe you can move the trisail track over, or find narrower slides?


Have you looked at batt cars?


OR, remove the track, figure you'll never need the trisail, and if you do, you will rig it extra early.


Obviously -- it's your boat, so you will have to balance the pros and cons yourself.
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Old 23-11-2020, 02:27   #7
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Re: Trisail track (or not)

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your problem.

That type of batten car is usually designed to fit inside the mast slot.

With the batten car inside the slot rather than on the outside, as your photo shows, there will be room for the batten car and the trisail track without any interference. No modifications should be required.
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Old 23-11-2020, 09:28   #8
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Re: Trisail track (or not)

would a deep 3rd reef on an 8oz main similar in size to the appropriate trisail be equivalent to a trisail?
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Old 23-11-2020, 09:48   #9
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Re: Trisail track (or not)

I wonder if it is possible to arrange a set of 'points' so the tri-sail can be on a parallel track below the boom but then be diverted into the main track
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Old 23-11-2020, 09:54   #10
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Re: Trisail track (or not)

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Originally Posted by JohnHolland View Post
would a deep 3rd reef on an 8oz main similar in size to the appropriate trisail be equivalent to a trisail?
A tri-sail is not the same as a third reef.

It is an independent sail that can be used even if the mainsail is ripped or damaged. In addition, it generally has a separate track and is rigged without use of the boom. Thus it can also be used if the mainsail track or boom is damaged. The tri-sail can be made from a very heavy cloth and cut flat to fulfil its role as specialist heavy weather sail.

In terms of area, it is usually much smaller than a third reef, in essence providing a forth reef. Of course a very small third reef could be incorporated into a mainsail, but this would leave the third reef too small for less extreme conditions.

Many boats cross oceans without a trisail, but it does add another string to the bow in extreme conditions.
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Old 23-11-2020, 10:13   #11
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Re: Trisail track (or not)

Quote:
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would a deep 3rd reef on an 8oz main similar in size to the appropriate trisail be equivalent to a trisail?
They do slightly different things. One of the things a tri sail does is bring the centre of effort further aft so your boat will round up better. It also does not have to be connected to the boom which could be important in a knock down or a damaged boom. If you can have a separate track with it pre packed on deck.

Many mast profiles don't allow this and while i could put a separate track up on my first boat i could not have it going down to the deck. So i had to drag it out in the lee side of the boat which was hard work. We were also able to haul it up in the lee of the triple reefed main which was important as it meant the boat stayed stable. I have put a tri sail up twice in anger so my expertise is very limited.
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Old 23-11-2020, 10:16   #12
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Re: Trisail track (or not)

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Perhaps I am misunderstanding your problem.

That type of batten car is usually designed to fit inside the mast slot.

With the batten car inside the slot rather than on the outside, as your photo shows, there will be room for the batten car and the trisail track without any interference. No modifications should be required.
Selden make a OWS and IWS.

OWS = Outer Wheel Slider (what I am using)
IWS = Inner wheel slider (What I wish I could use but only fits newer mast sections - IWS would mean I would clear the trisail track)

In the photo above that shows the slider, the bottom part of the slider is already in the groove on the mast.

Our mast is a Kemp (aka Selden) E Section 206/139.
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Old 23-11-2020, 10:46   #13
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Re: Trisail track (or not)

Look at a Strong track system. My experience with Strong track and lazy jack/stack pack is better than using very expensive cars for a full-batten mainsail. Raising, lowering and reefing is a breeze. And I have full compatibility with the trisail track--which I've never had to use, so far.


The trisail track goes down low enough that the sail can be pre-attached (in its specially designed bag) and not get in the way
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Old 23-11-2020, 10:46   #14
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Re: Trisail track (or not)

I recommend a Tides Marine strong track. We got one when we got our boat and the main now just drops like rock. It is adjacent to our trysail track and we can use both with no interference. Very smooth; and the only sticking points we have are on sail hoist when the battens get caught in the lazy jacks.

Yes - you may have to change the carriers on your main (I did that - it was my first sail repair job on our new to us boat), but the Strong Track itself can usually just slide up the current slot in the mast without much fuss.

It has worked for us now for @ 4 years.
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Old 23-11-2020, 11:17   #15
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Re: Trisail track (or not)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAl.NZ View Post
Selden make a OWS and IWS.

OWS = Outer Wheel Slider (what I am using)
IWS = Inner wheel slider (What I wish I could use but only fits newer mast sections - IWS would mean I would clear the trisail track)
I understand now. Thanks for explaining.

The main advantage for a cruising boat of IWS sliders is to allows reefing at larger wind angles than would normally be the case with a simple slug system. The side loading does not create friction that would otherwise be impossible too overcome. Of less importance is that the mainsail is easier to raise and quicker to reef. It would be interesting to see how the OWS performs in this regard. It will not reduce the friction as well as the IWS, but especially if it allows reefing at large wind angles this is a valuable safety feature.

I agree the OWS system is not compatible with your tri-sail track so the question becomes “do the benefits of the OWS system outweigh the loss of the independent tri-sail track”. This depends on the benefits of the OWS system so perhaps members with experience of this system can comment.
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