Staysail boom, again.

[skipmac]

Still trying to decide about the staysail boom. The main reason is still the same, it's really in the way on the foredeck. When not flying the staysail it's a tripping hazard and makes movement around the area awkward. Also, the boom sits really low so can't stow the dinghy on deck when at sea.

After posting a previous question this based on answers and suggestions I have at least a wider range of ideas.

First, keep it or off it? Again based on the previous thread I'm about 80% keep it. But if I did off it I see these options.

1. Keep the same athwartships track in front of the mast and fly the staysail loose footed.
2. Install fore and aft tracks on the side deck or cabin top and tack the staysail like the jib.

Keeping it the options I see.

1. Do nothing BUT what to do with the RIB on a passage. Hanging in the davits, no matter how I lash it the dinghy tends to swing around, chafe on the tubes and stress the davits. I could leave the RIB at home if I do a long offshore, take a rollup and buy another RIB when I arrive.

2. Gooseneck for the club boom is mounted on a vertical post mounted on the foredeck. I could make a taller post to leave more room under for the dinghy but I think going much taller will put the gooseneck on the end of a longer lever arm and it could bend or break the post.

3. Relevant to #2 could one attach the boom to the staysail stay? That would allow me to raise or lower it as needed and should be stronger than putting it on a tall, vertical post. But is there a potential problem with this? Would it effect the set of the sail for instance?

4. Cut the foot of the staysail so it angles up from the tack leaving more room under the boom for the dinghy.

Any other ideas or suggestions welcome.

[tkeithlu]

The boom holds the shape of the staysail independent of the geometry of the sheet. If you remove it, then you will have to locate tracks that let you hold the right curve in the (now) jib, inside the curve of the forestay jib. But, that won't leave you any space for the RIB. So, perhaps option #4 is attractive, since it leaves some space in front of the mast.

But, both of these involve messing with a rig that works. How about further consideration of coralling that RIB on the davits? Assuming it is clear of a following wave, a lashing that compresses the inflated bumper should be possible. An involved task of lashing it up and then unlashing it when you get there impresses me as preferable to altering the rig.

[Adelie]

For the keeping options:
1. How big a dinghy do you need?
If you want a 10' dinghy, build a nesting dinghy, install some fenders or tubular foam along the gunnels and store it behind the cockpit on the coach roof. Not quite as stable as rib, but definitely as fast or faster and much easier to store.
2. I don't see working well, the overturning moment on the gooseneck post would get very high.
3. & 4. go together. Might lose too much sail area raising the boom and foot far enough to go over the dinghy.

Getting a hard nesting dinghy also works if you ditch the boom for a radius track on the coachroof.

[Cheechako]

A thought: Make the staysail boom readily detachable at the tack. Remove it and store on cabintop further aft.
This assumes that the staysail stay leaves you room to store the dingy behind it.?

But what are your cruising plans? Until you are crossing wide oceans... use the davits. There are ways to keep the dingy secure. You just need to figure that out. You DO remove the engine right? Is it a heavy double floor? Get a single floor lighter RIB. Is your RIB over 10 ft? A 9ft RIB is better than a 10 ft rollup.
or
Buy a quality rollup and live with it. My friends sailed US to New Zealand and all they had was a rollup (not air floor)

I would not modify the staysail, cut it etc. They are finicky enough and work great in a blow.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

A thought: Make the staysail boom readily detachable at the tack. Remove it and store on cabintop further aft.
This assumes that the staysail stay leaves you room to store the dingy behind it.?

But what are your cruising plans? Until you are crossing wide oceans... use the davits. There are ways to keep the dingy secure. You just need to figure that out. You DO remove the engine right? Is it a heavy double floor? Get a single floor lighter RIB. Is your RIB over 10 ft? A 9ft RIB is better than a 10 ft rollup.
or
Buy a quality rollup and live with it. My friends sailed US to New Zealand and all they had was a rollup (not air floor)

I would not modify the staysail, cut it etc. They are finicky enough and work great in a blow.

It seems to me that he would want the boat to be in the cruising arrangement for a while to get used to it an know exactly how it works so there aren't any surprises working or reefing the sail in heavy weather.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Adelie

It seems to me that he would want the boat to be in the cruising arrangement for a while to get used to it an know exactly how it works so there aren't any surprises working or reefing the sail in heavy weather.

I agree, it was just a wild thought. He just needs to deal with his dingy and davits etc I think. Or convert that staysail to boomless, but he will have to deal with tracks, blocks and fairleads etc. My boomless staysails were in a custom bag, hanked on, sheets lead or coiled in the bag, depending on if I was just day tripping or crossing big water. Remove the bag, attach the halyard and pull 'er up!

[Adelie]

Cheech:
It seemed like you were suggesting he use one arrangement on passage and another near coastal.

[hpeer]

Thinking outside the box....

1. Do nothing BUT what to do with the RIB on a passage. Hanging in the davits, no matter how I lash it the dinghy tends to swing around, chafe on the tubes and stress the davits. I could leave the RIB at home if I do a long offshore, take a rollup and buy another RIB when I arrive.

Switch to a Porta Boat?

We have towed our PB for probably over, well over, 1,000 miles. If you snub the bow up tight, so it has some upward tension, it tows pretty well.

Or you can fold it and carry it on deck, but then the seats and transom need storage. We lash ours to the lifelines, Mike OReily carries his against his rather high cabin top. You could carry it on the davits, unfolded. I have not seen it done but have considered folding it and carrying it on the underside of my arch. Maybe the davits could carry the folded boat more easily, weight is then pretty low and no chafe issues, the hulls are tough as nails.

So its not a perfect answer and has issues of its own. I have a 10’er a (largish) 33’ boat. And a 12’er on our (largish) 44’er.

Some of us have modified them to improve performance we care about. They row modestly well and that can be improved by changing out the oar locks so you can use REAL oars.




Just an idea.

[Tayana42]

Skip, I love my boomed staysail for all the reasons you already know but it does limit foredeck stowage space. My solution is a 10’ 3” inflatable with a high pressure air floor. It’s not quite as sturdy as a rib but it’s pretty good. And it is easy to partially deflate to tie down on deck beneath the staysail boom or fully deflate and take below.

[psk125]

If you have a track for the staysail boom already in place, why not try using the staysail without the boom and see what happens? For going upwind it should work fine. On reaches you might need some sort of barber-hauler setup with a snatch block to get the sail trimmed at the right angle. You're not likely to be tacking much if you're going on long passages.

Otherwise, if you really like the boom all that much, what about making a new one that was curved, sort of like a Hoyt Boom or hockey stick? You could mount it on the existing foredeck post and purposely make it tall enough to clear the dinghy stored on deck. Shouldn't be too hard to put a smooth curve into an aluminum tube, or laminate up some oak or spruce.
https://www.forespar.com/products/sa...m-system.shtml

[skipmac]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions. My thoughts back.

The dinghy. Have tried hard dinks though not a nesting dink. Perhaps one with some kind of fenders or tubes around the sides would suit but as I do a lot of swimming and diving I really like the stability of an inflatable climbing in and out. For exploring and hauling dive gear I like the speed and range of a RIB which would also come with a nesting dinghy. A few years ago I did start a thread trying to explore alternatives to RIBs. I lead off saying YES I know all the advantages of a RIB but if a RIB isn't practical which of the options (inflatable keel, inflatable bottom, etc) is the best alternative and how much of a compromise is it. Basically ALL the answers were, get a RIB, RIB good, soft floor bad, so I gave up in frustration and just bought a new RIB.

Next trip is a shakedown to the Bahamas after some new installations and mods (really just an excuse to go sailing) and I'll test the davit option further.
Then IF the pandemic cools off and nothing else hits the fan then next spring I'm reviving my canceled plans to cross the Atlantic. The boat sits pretty high and it would take a really unusual wave to fill the dink when it's fully hoisted in the davits (yes I do remove the outboard). One of the mods I'm doing is reinforcing and bracing the davits to make them more rigid. The last round trip FL to MA and back I did a few offshore legs and the dinghy did OK but not great. Maybe with a little more work on lashing it down I could be satisfied with the davits even on a crossing.

One thought about the set and shape of the staysail without the boom. Since I have a track just in front of the mast and the staysail clew is pretty close to the deck would it make that much difference without the boom? At least close reaching it seems like it would be similar to a loose footed main? But off the wind I think the sail shape would not be good.

Some specifics.

hpeer. How's the Portabote for climbing in with dive gear? Carrying a load?

Tatana42. What brand/model HP airfloor do you have? Would you consider it almost as good as a RIB or well since I don't have a RIB I'll make do? And where were you when I was researching dinghies?

A Hoyt style boom (same as a wishbone I think?) is an idea. Have seen pictures and looked at them when dock walking but never played with one. Do they attach to the stay? The ones I'm thinking about the forward end is quite high so clearly no gooseneck fitting.

Some good ideas and things to try. Hopefully January I'll get a chance to do so.

[hpeer]

hpeer. How's the Portabote for climbing in with dive gear? Carrying a load?

Not great for climbing in and out, I do it but its a struggle.

Load is OK. Adequate for us and we are a bit over 400 lbs total. I have had 650+ pounds of people in our 12’ dink. That was OK in sheltered water and made me nervous. 8hp 2 stroke on the back.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Not great for climbing in and out, I do it but its a struggle.

Load is OK. Adequate for us and we are a bit over 400 lbs total. I have had 650+ pounds of people in our 12’ dink. That was OK in sheltered water and made me nervous. 8hp 2 stroke on the back.

With a 10.5' RIB and a 15 HP Yamaha I can plane with four as long as they aren't NFL linebackers and feel quite safe with that even in a pretty good chop. If it's a struggle climbing in from the water I think the portabote option isn't going to work well for me.

I can tell from the sounds of WWIII it must be midnight (on the east coast). Happy New Year!

[hpeer]

Skip,

Yes they are for a niche user. Thats for sure.

[Tayana42]

Skip, mine is a Walker Bay Hypalon. I really like the dinghy but not the company. I’d look at a different brand next time. With the air floor and inflated keel I’d say it’s pretty good, pretty stiff and has great load carrying capacity. I’d course it is less rugged than a hard bottom but I haven’t had any problems. It isn’t a make do for me. It is the best option considering I don’t have davits and don’t have room on the foredeck for a rib.