Rig lashing tension

[straycurrent]

Hi all,
I’m preparing to rig a 45 foot sloop in dyneema.
Does anyone have real world experience with lashing deadeyes and getting enough tension?
I like the idea of the lashings but have read that on bigger boats you cannot get enough tension.
Would love to hear of experiences.

ManY thanks.

[Benz]

I have much experience with it. There are a variety of tricks to try: leading the fall of the lanyard to a halyard and putting that on a winch; leading the fall directly to a winch (attach it to a temporary winch-able tail first); leading the fall to a handy-billy or come-along attached to a halyard.
The best thing you can do is remove as much constructional elongation as possible from each shroud by loading it to 30% of break load after splicing and before installation. I've rigged a cascading tackle with a chainfall between two trees to get decent tension. If you can load one up and leave it for a few hours, it'll settle in nicely and you'll have to tune less on the boat.
You can also try tightening with a tackle or come-along that's rigged separately from the lanyard: set the shroud up tight with it, lash in the lanyard as tight as possible, then release the come-along. This is hard to do, since the lead will change slightly between come-along and lanyard, and you need separate-but-close attachment points.

[double u]

how about taking up slack on the lee side under sail, tack-repeat,----& so forth, littel by little doing this in stronger winds? Always checking that masttop is centered...

[jt11791]

Unless you are after a 19th century look, why use deadeyes when turnbuckles are available? Turnbuckles make rig tuning so much easier, they are certainly worth the added cost.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by jt11791

Unless you are after a 19th century look, why use deadeyes when turnbuckles are available? Turnbuckles make rig tuning so much easier, they are certainly worth the added cost.

I think avoiding metal parts is a big part of this. I would prefer lashings, unfortunately I can’t mentally accept the Dyneema diameter required for countering creep.

[fxykty]

Do you know how much tension (in foot-pounds or whatever measurement units) your shroud requires? Then divide by 6 or 8 to establish how much tension each lashing needs to support (generally not more than 8 legs as equalising the tension even with that many is not easy and the more legs the more unbalanced).

Now that you know your lashing tension, is that reasonable for the size of lashing you want to use? Can you apply that much tension, and equalise the load on all lashing legs? Equalising the legs is the most difficult thing and generally requires a terminal or deadeye with seperate holes for each lashing leg, such as this Colligo terminator: https://www.colligomarine.com/produc...-11-13mm-black

Suggestions above about pre-tensioning is key, so you don’t have to deal with too much travel. Install the shrouds and tension both sides evenly as much as you can at the dock. Then go sailing in flat water with wind close to the top of your power (just before you reef the main). First tighten the leeward side, then tack and tighten the other side the same amount. Repeat until your leeward shroud is just soft and stop before you start bending your boat (door frame in the main bulkhead starts to warp).

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I think avoiding metal parts is a big part of this. I would prefer lashings, unfortunately I can’t mentally accept the Dyneema diameter required for countering creep.

The main shroud needs to withstand creep, the lashings do not.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by fxykty

The main shroud needs to withstand creep, the lashings do not.

Yes, I think I need 16mm Dyneema…

[Manateeman]

We do not understand how an arbitrary vessel length equates to all variations of rigs. Further, not all dead eyes have the same friction. Indeed, you can use lashings without a traditional shaped deadeye. You don’t even need a dead eye.
The manatee crew began a thread on modifications to a stainless cast thimble.
The crew was thoroughly lashed. Almost keel hauled.
When we have time, we’ll TIG up some new ideas and post.
Dear gentle original poster.
We’ve asked your question to ourselves. We’ve listen to those who feel turnbuckles are necessary, not just convenient. We’ve examined the safety factors. We’ve seen masts bent from over tension. We’ve suggested design alternatives to traditional dead eyes. We’ve even examined dead eye patents going back to wooden ships.
Do we have an answer to your question?
Nope. But it is a most excellent question indeed.
Thank you for posting.
Mark and the manatee crew.

[Franziska]

We had lashings on our rig.
As it is a 35ft cruising cat I did not see a huge benefit in them as they were always a pain when tightening up the rigging.
As the Dyneema and its splices tends to settle a bit in the first weeks under tension, this needed to be done several times initially and also about once per season.

We also take tension off when the boat is stored on the hard.

We replaced the lashings with turnbuckles and kept the Dyneema shrouds. Much easier to tune.
Obviously the turnbuckles are a little heavier then the lashings, but on deck level that is far less critical than more weight aloft.

[straycurrent]

Thanks for all the input,
My main concern with rigging screws is running out of travel in the initial set up stage if I don’t quite get the lengths right.
I think I will set up with lashings and see how it goes. If I want I can change to rigging screws down the track.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by straycurrent

Thanks for all the input,
My main concern with rigging screws is running out of travel in the initial set up stage if I don’t quite get the lengths right.
I think I will set up with lashings and see how it goes. If I want I can change to rigging screws down the track.

There are tables on how much constructional stretch you can expect given straight eye splices or Brummel locked eye splices. But it’s not the end of the world - you can always resplice a straight eye splice if your shroud turns out to be too long after setting.

Once set, assuming you’re using Dux, the future movement is minimal. After two years and 11,000 miles sailing we’ve come down 4 full turns on each side in that time. And that’s with running our shrouds very tight.