Noobie needs splicing help

[tomfl]

I need to learn how to make soft shackles for several places on my boat. Sampson fids seem to be the most common solution but I have also run across D-Splicer; as well as a few other options.

There is also the option of me making DIY fids. Not sure which way to go and I have seen several comments about store bought fids/needles being way over priced.

Any help on where I should start welcome.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by tomfl

I need to learn how to make soft shackles for several places on my boat. Sampson fids seem to be the most common solution but I have also run across D-Splicer; as well as a few other options.

There is also the option of me making DIY fids. Not sure which way to go and I have seen several comments about store bought fids/needles being way over priced.

Any help on where I should start welcome.

Homemade fids function well. The easiest option is to buy some metal knitting needles and cut off the ends to made 1 fid length. This is generally 21 x the rope diameter that will be used for the fid.

You simply jam the rope into the opening and secure the junction with a little tape. No need to pay an arm and a leg .

SWL

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Homemade fids function well. The easiest option is to buy some metal knitting needles and cut off the ends to made 1 fid length. This is generally 21 x the rope diameter that will be used for the fid.

You simply jam the rope into the opening and secure the junction with a little tape. No need to pay an arm and a leg .

SWL

On that note, couldn't one snip a little off of the tip of a knitting needle, plus the end as well. And then insert a piece of braided fishing line through it to make an improvised "splicing wand". Albeit one without a lock to hold the loop in place as found on Brion's original ones. Though I imagine that with a bit of thought, the above idea could yet be improved upon. Especially in terms of a handle, & locking system for the loop.
Not that I don't LUV Brion's wands They rock!

[Benz]

I find the Samson kit a good investment, but then I do a lot of splicing, and use the markings for quick measuring. For occasional/infrequent splicing even a ball point pen or a piece of SS TIG rod bent in half will do. This is one area where almost everyone finds by trial and error something that suits them. Maybe try the cheapest thing first, and work along until you find maximum comfort. In the end, you might wind up like me and want one of each, as well as stealing your wife's knitting needles, crotchet hooks, and darning needles.
Ben
zartmancruising dot com

[StuM]

Two of my main tools - spike and wand.

I do have a range of commercial fids as well, but for soft shackles - those two plus a biro or knitting needle to ease the strands apart are all you need.

And use SWL's instructional posts here for how to make your soft shackles (I found her button knot instructions to be by far the easiest to follow out of many such instructions I've found on the intertubes)

[Dan_K]

The "Selma" fids work very well, no tape needed and you can use a slightly smaller fid. Too bad they are expensive.

For soft shackles that I use often, the "Edwards" is easier to open. This one I found in the app: "Grog Knots".

[KimSails]

Better Soft Shackle

This looks like the "Soft Shackle Edwards" from Grog. I use this in a number places on my boat. The I-36 site seems to have other soft shackle options as well.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by KimSails

Better Soft Shackle

This looks like the "Soft Shackle Edwards" from Grog. I use this in a number places on my boat. The I-36 site seems to have other soft shackle options as well.

A button knot is better than the diamond knot. Not only does it look better, it is much stronger too. (The loop sits around 4 strands, not just two so the bend radius is better as well as the legs being stronger)

Here's the best set of instructions I know. From Seaworthy Lass, right her at CF. I actually copied all of her instructions and created a PDF of them. If SWL is happy, I'll make them available for download.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ot-155591.html

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by StuM

A button knot is better than the diamond knot. Not only does it look better, it is much stronger too. (The loop sits around 4 strands, not just two so the bend radius is better as well as the legs being stronger)

Here's the best set of instructions I know. From Seaworthy Lass, right her at CF. I actually copied all of her instructions and created a PDF of them. If SWL is happy, I'll make them available for download.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ot-155591.html

Thanks for the compliment .

I am happy to have the information easily available so no problems with providing a link to a pdf.

Is it possible though that you could create a new one please? I have since made a couple of dozen of these soft shackles and refined a few details. The instructions for tightening the button could be improved. If you give me an hour I will do that now.

Also, could credit please be given at the beginning to the innovators? I know the time and effort that goes onto work such as this. This is what I wrote in post #1 of the thread:

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

The "High Strengh" soft shackle (uses a Button knot stopper)
Coming up with this was a team effort by Brion Toss (who developed the Button itself), Allen Edwards and Evans Starzinger in this SA thread:
Rope/knot/splice load testing - Gear Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums
Its strength is considered to be about 230% of line strength (30% stronger than the Better soft shackle). This is achieved by burying the tails in the line at the base of the stopper and therefore strengthening the weak point of the shackle. The noose/loop at the end becomes the new weak point.
Allen commented that the Button stopper is "is a bitch to figure out". Trying it for the first time a few days ago, my sentiments we initially along the same lines .

Why bother with this stronger shackle when you could just use a thicker line and make the "easy" Better one? Well, soft shackles are extremely useful to connect the snubber to the chain. We have used them since early 2013 with great success and general reports from other cruisers indicate the same. However, the optimal line diameter needed for strength unfortunately does not fit easily through the chain links. Using the "High Strength" soft shackle is therefore considered the better choice in this application.

Secondly, I concur with Evans - it not much harder to make once you have conquered the Button.

And last, but far from least, it is a elegant shackle with no stumpy bit poking through the top of the stopper . The button stopper actually makes handling significantly easier. Many thanks to Brion for this brilliant innovation.

SWL

[Seaworthy Lass]

For those unfamiliar with a High Strength soft shackle:




Tom, although this is a slight deviation from the question you posed in your first post, it does fit in with the title of the thread .

All the info about home made fids you have been given here is excellent. Stu's looks like the simplest and cheapest and will work in exactly the same way a significantly more expensive "needle" fid does. As with the splicing wand, this works by snagging the dyneema and pulling it through the core, as opposed to pushing it through (as you would with "Selma" type fids and hollow fids) so you many need to reverse the insertion point of the fid depending on what fid type is used in the instructions.

If you find the button stopper daunting at first, I would start off by making a few "Better" soft shackles (see Allen Edwards L-36 website or Grog's animated knots for instructions). I modify these slightly by not placing a lock at the button end, as I think this will allow the legs more freedom to equalise under load, therefore improving strength. Instead, while tying the Diamond stopper secure the base temporarily with some tape or a constrictor knot.

A well made Better soft shackle will have about 1.7x the strength of the dyneema line you are using. A well made High Strengh one will have 2.3x. The button stopper in the latter does make handling easier though, particularly if trying to secure these one handed or when fumbling with cold wet fingers, so that added strength is not the only bonus.

SWL

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Thanks for the compliment .

I am happy to have the information easily available so no problems with providing a link to a pdf.

Is it possible though that you could create a new one please? I have since made a couple of dozen of these soft shackles and refined a few details. The instructions for tightening the button could be improved. If you give me an hour I will do that now.

Also, could credit please be given at the beginning to the innovators? I know the time and effort that goes onto work such as this. This is what I wrote in post #1 of the thread:

SWL

No problem with creating a new one. PM me with any changes you want made.

I've got that original post with credits at the start of the document.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by StuM

No problem with creating a new one. PM me with any changes you want made.

I've got that original post with credits at the start of the document.

Thanks Stu.

I have now finished with the alterations. I have been meaning to add these for a while, so thanks for the nudge. I will post them here so that anyone who has making these soft shackles can see them at a glance as well:

Button instructions:
Step 15 (post# 20) Tightening instructions altered to this:
"To complete the hand tightening, slip on a big washer so that it sits right under the Button, pop the Button under the jaws of a vice and pull on the taped standing pair as hard as you can, then each working end in turn. Repeat. It should feel rock solid at this stage."

Soft shackle instructions:
Step 2 (post # 22): I make the loop size 5-6x line diameter now, not 4x, as I had originally. The legs pass obliquely through the loop so it need to be slightly larger than 4. A bigger loop is easier to open, so going to 6x is useful. The photo still has 4x on it.

Step 6a (post #31) has been added:
"Pretension the soft shackle before burying the ends. Simply close it and attach it between two winches and slowly but steadily winch it tight. Let it sit like this for half an hour. If this is not done, apparently you may have reduced strength if shock loads are applied before the stopper has been fully tightened. Better to be safe than sorry."

Step 6b (post #31) Added:
"A fid that works by pulling the line through (eg a wire fid, needle fid, splicing wand) will enable the tails to be pulled through closer to the base of the stopper)"
"Taper the end. Unlike long bury splices, the soft shackle strength will not be limited by the taper, so the technique is not critical, it will just provide a smoother junction."

SWL

[Seaworthy Lass]

Stu, a while ago I made a slight change to the credits as well. I had learned that Allen Edwards thought of the idea of burying the legs and Brion Toss actually developed the Button stopper.

The second edition of Brion's The Complete Rigger's Apprentice does give instructions for the Button, but I must admit it took me a while to puzzle them out. I think a wide range of instruction types is good. Things just click differently for different people .

SWL