Mast vs Cabintop Halyard Winch

[Agrippa]

Thanks Rumrace. A final newbie query: what thickness and type of smaller rope/line is best for the attachment: deck (presumably U-bolt) to either Low-Friction Ring or Block? I'll get a few metres, to also have spare for replacement and other connections. - Thanks

[jamhass]

McLube Sailkote is the go-to stuff.

[wholybee]

That exit block just seems wrong. I wouldn't even try to make it work. What I would consider, is a mast exit (just a slot) a few feet or so higher than the boom. The line would continue down, so no block or anything is needed. A winch could be mounted at a convenient level, and/or a block could be mounted on the deck at the mast base at the correct angle to turn it to the cabin top winch. You could then use either.

[Agrippa]

What's the best way to cut in a halyard exit, as an alternative. Four corner holes, then a jig saw?

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Agrippa

What's the best way to cut in a halyard exit, as an alternative. Four corner holes, then a jig saw?

That's the usual way but have you given up on running the halyards outside of the mast? I think of halyards inside the mast being a racing preference, to improve the airflow over the leading edge of the sail and help upwind performance. Otherwise, why?

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Agrippa

Question: is it ok to drill and then tap the holes in the mast metal thickness...or is it too thin and one must use a thicker aluminium baseplate with heavy rivets to the mast?

I would use aluminum rivnuts and aluminum stove bolts. That will be stronger than drilling and tapping but still not ideal. Ideal would be to make a backing plate and fish it (and the associated nuts, use flaged locknuts or keps so you don't need to put a wrench on them) in from the end of the mast using thin wires through the mounting holes.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Agrippa

I'm reassessing running rigging on an old 26 IF.

The halyard run is awful...the line comes down in-mast, out an exit-block at the base, then pulled 45deg aft (sawing against the metal exit-block wheel edge), then back to a No.8 at cabintop.

The way it's supposed to be is the line should come down in-mast to a halyard exit at about chest level or eye level and continue outside the mast to a block fastened to the mast step or the deck by a short strop, or maybe a halyard block attached to the mast itself. (https://hardware.schaefermarine.com/...qmnf4flbdgsvm7)


The way to solve the presenting problem on that boat without carving up your mast is to use either LFRs (low friction rings) or ordinary blocks tethered to a padeye on the deck. For the LFR you would use a bullseye strop and for a plain block you would use a piece of dyneema spliced in a loop. The block will introduce less friction. The LFR will be cheaper and perhaps less prone to becoming fouled.

I'm replacing the No.8 and it seems much simpler to me to put the new one plus a clutch on the mast.

If that's the way you want the boat then go for it, but it's going to be more work and not as simple.


You will have to cut a new halyard exit. You will have to attach the winch to the spar and use a custom-cut shim to make the flat winch bottom fit the curve of the mast. You will have to attach a clutch (if that's what you want) or a cleat (more common) and keep all this stuff out of the way of the other rigging, and out of the way of the sails.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Don C L

That's the usual way but have you given up on running the halyards outside of the mast? I think of halyards inside the mast being a racing preference, to improve the airflow over the leading edge of the sail and help upwind performance. Otherwise, why?

If they're inside the mast they won't get stuck around the spreaders when dousing sail on a windy day.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Jammer

If they're inside the mast they won't get stuck around the spreaders when dousing sail on a windy day.

Ah yes, that is true. I just swing out like Tarzan around the spreader when that happens.
Ok that’s a joke.

[Be Free]

Why not just put a pair of turning blocks on the cabin top to allow the halyards to come out at a right angle to the mast and then turn smoothly back to the existing winch?

[Agrippa]

Originally Posted by Jammer

The way it's supposed to be is the line should come down in-mast to a halyard exit at about chest level or eye level and continue outside the mast to a block fastened to the mast step or the deck by a short strop, or maybe a halyard block attached to the mast itself. (https://hardware.schaefermarine.com/...qmnf4flbdgsvm7)


The way to solve the presenting problem on that boat without carving up your mast is to use either LFRs (low friction rings) or ordinary blocks tethered to a padeye on the deck. For the LFR you would use a bullseye strop and for a plain block you would use a piece of dyneema spliced in a loop. The block will introduce less friction. The LFR will be cheaper and perhaps less prone to becoming fouled.






If that's the way you want the boat then go for it, but it's going to be more work and not as simple.


You will have to cut a new halyard exit. You will have to attach the winch to the spar and use a custom-cut shim to make the flat winch bottom fit the curve of the mast. You will have to attach a clutch (if that's what you want) or a cleat (more common) and keep all this stuff out of the way of the other rigging, and out of the way of the sails.

OK that is helpful, thank you. I'll therefore try to pursue again to bring lines aft.
For the halyard exit, there appear to be different types:
- Exit Plate
- Double block inline
- And some people seem to file an incline in the slot itself (..would seem a chafe problem)

I'll inspect the deck vs the mast option for the block at the base of the mast, to try and see which would be stronger.

[Agrippa]

Originally Posted by Be Free

Why not just put a pair of turning blocks on the cabin top to allow the halyards to come out at a right angle to the mast and then turn smoothly back to the existing winch?

The mast Exit Block and the cabintop (with existing turning block on it, in a deck-organiser position) are higher than the mast base. The angles don't seem to work when you add the new turning block.

The new block wants to lie horizontal, and be up at the higher height where the other blocks are. But there is no obvious way to position a block there, and what to attach it to.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Agrippa

OK that is helpful, thank you. I'll therefore try to pursue again to bring lines aft.
For the halyard exit, there appear to be different types:
- Exit Plate
- Double block inline
- And some people seem to file an incline in the slot itself (..would seem a chafe problem)

My Tartan 3800 just has slots that have been filed smooth. This is the factory configuration. If you're doing both halyards it is important to space the exits apart a few feet to avoid introducing a weak spot into the mast. My previous boat had some sort of plastic exit plate. It doesn't matter much because the angles are such that there is little pressure pushing the halyard against the mast section, and therefore little chafe. I've never seen the double block arrangement -- maybe it would make sense on a wood mast where the wall of the mast is much thicker.

[Agrippa]

OK thanks. A couple of notes on this:
1. I'll need a longer attachment for block, to get the aft-returning line up to the level of the cabintop? "C"
2. The padeye deck attachment looks like it will have to be forward of the mast exit slot, so the winch doesn't pull the line sideways so it saws against the slot edge?
3. It's a stepped mast with an encapsulated beam under, visible in the cabin "A". I don't know what the beam inside the fibreglass encapsulation is made from...wood?? The fibreglass deck up around the mast area is thin. I suspect the padeye will just tear out, even with my 50mm sq x 2.0mm plate washers under. So fixing into the beam would be an advantage. But how to fix: if wood, then long 8 guage wood screws..but if other then I may need to through-bolt with threaded rod with nuts each end? Depending on the location of the padeye I may have to employ both methods if it falls half-on and half-off the beam.

Alternatively, avoid all that and use a pivoting sheave riveted to the mast?

[Agrippa]

Originally Posted by Don C L

That's the usual way but have you given up on running the halyards outside of the mast? I think of halyards inside the mast being a racing preference, to improve the airflow over the leading edge of the sail and help upwind performance. Otherwise, why?

Don, going outside I'd presumably have to redo the masthead.