Low friction rings on the main as reef points

[barnakiel]

I think normally a small block is used in this position.


I would lash a ring very close to the sail.


b.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by B4A

Hi all:

I have a single lines reefing system on my 56 sq meters (607 sq feet) main sil.

The stainless ring creates a lot of friction and I was thinking of replacing it with an Antal low friction rings.

Questions:

1) How do you lash the low friction ring? I was thinking about keeping the stainless steel one on the opposite side.

2) How big should I go with the low friction ring?

3) Can anybody who has done it post some pics and feedback?

A comment: the strop and ring that you sh ow isn't meant to be used with a line through the ring like you have it. The ring is meant to be hooked over a horn on the goose neck... a common reefing practice. If you simply remove the strop and run the line through the cringle in the sail the friction will be markedly reduced, and require no additional hardware. Of course, use of dyneema will reduce the friction even further, but may not be necessary.

Jim

[Snore]

I would respectfully suggest you rethink this. Having single and double reefed cats from 38-50 feet, I have never felt that the problem was drag from the rings. I have had some drag if I drop the main and then pull the reefing line in as the sail is laying on the line. If you are truly OCD, pull the reefing line in as you drop the main to avoid most of the drag.

Or just use the electric winch to pull un the reefing line. Just be careful to listen to the winch to make sure you don’t ‘over pull’ the reefing line.

[Glasshopper]

See attached pic. I retro-fitted the anti friction ring to eliminate the grinding noise and evident chaffe, which was mostly a problem when becalmed and mainsail was flip-flopping left-right.

[tstano]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Good application. Yes, Dyneema would help a lot.

Sew them into webbing. Use the wider style ring, not the one you showed. These give a larger bend radius and thus less friction. Solid rings are for different applications.

3:1 system?

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Good application. Yes, Dyneema would help a lot.

Sew them into webbing. Use the wider style ring, not the one you showed. These give a larger bend radius and thus less friction. Solid rings are for different applications.

Interesting looking rig there. Would you explain where this is used? Looks like a vang?

I suppose the desire for low friction at the tack reef point applies to a single line reefing system? With separate lines for clew and tack, or with a tack hook, then no need for low friction at the tack. But we sure could use lower friction on the clew, since clew reef line sometimes must be brought in with a flogging main and against a bit of tension from the mainsheet and weight of boom.

[Tupaia]

A whole range of eyes, blocks and thimbles here.
https://www.tyetec-loop-products.com/

[s/v Jedi]

I have tried to avoid using Amsteel Blue for reefing lines due to cost but I’ll give in and do it. I worked out how to make this work with the jammers mounted in the front end of the boom.

I will use 1/4” (6.5mm) Amsteel Blue and the jammers need 12mm rope to work right. I will splice a small eye in the end of the dyneema, wrap it around the boom straight below the reef cringle in the leech, then haul the whole reefing line through the eye to fasten it. Next the line goes up, through the cringle (the grommet in the sail itself) then back down and aft to the block in the end of the boom, then through the boom and jammer. This only works for loose footed mains but works very good to pull it down and aft.

Next is marking the position at the jammer when it is reefed. I will take 3’ of small 4mm line and cut a taper at both ends, then put it inside the amsteel like a core. Next is a 6’ length of polyester outer braid from a 12mm or 1/2” diameter line to put around it. To do that, use a small Swedish fid that can hold the 1/4” Amsteel and tape it to the Amsteel. Enter the outer braid about 1’ from the end, going through the braid, down the core and exit the braid again 1’ before the other end. Pull the Dyneema through until the 3’ section with small line inside sits inside the outer braid, which should now be 12mm diameter. Last is burying the 1’ long tails into the Dyneema after tapering them. It needs to be stretched under tension, then lock-stitched at each end.

To use use something thicker than 1/4” Amsteel is a waste of $$$ because the Amsteel holds 6,600lbs so being doubled for the reef that is 6 tons. When you would buy this with outerbraid, it is 3/8” 10mm diameter so not thick enough for my jammers.

[Tillsbury]

I replaced my reefing lines with 8mm dyneema and spliced a braid over the area that needs to go in the jammers and winch, only 2-3m or so. Makes a huge difference to the friction and the amount of rope in the cockpit. Just pull it by hand until the cover arrives, then you’re nearly there and can put it on the winch.

[fxykty]

We use 8mm Acera Amundsen (uncovered 12 strand Dyneema), replacing the previous 14mm double braid polyester lines. Our reefing system has lines for the clews and webbing straps with hooks for the tacks. The first two reefs have clew blocks and the third reef has a low friction ring on a bullseye weave soft shackle (thanks Seaworthy Lass).



We spliced a small eye in one end and put the reefing line around the boom, leading through the eye, before going up to the clew and then through the sheave at the end of the boom. We slid enough Technora cover onto each reef line to cover the line from where it goes through the eye then around the clew block/ring and finally around the boom end sheave, when reefed, for chafe protection.




At the front of the boom we have simple single cam jammers to hold the reef lines and the outhaul (also 8mm Acera Amundsen). We didn’t put a line inside to bulk up the core (good idea though, and I may retrofit that eventually), but instead put a Technora cover on each line for about 1m to provide bulk and friction for the jammer.



The covers are held in place through 30cm buries and a whipping at each end). That is sufficient for the clew end covers as they aren’t loaded by jammers, but is insufficient for the jammer locations.

We had to stitch through the covers all the way along and not rely on just the whippings and buries at either end. The jammers provide a point load on the reef line and the relatively loose cover will take most of the load. This has resulted in cover rips and slipping in the jammer. Now that we’ve stitched the covers they hold better. But added bulk from an interior addition will help even more.

The uncovered reef lines reduce windage, weight and bulk. They are slipperier and require 6-7 turns on the self tailing winch to not slide. They are more susceptible to chafe and need to be protected. They need extra bulk and chafe resistance to work in jammers.

[admiralslater]

I believe that this is not a good application for friction rings as the the rope is doing a 180 . Blocks would be better IMO

[Nauticatarcher]

https://www.southernseasmarine.com/i...ef-300x300.jpg
This would help reduce friction

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by admiralslater

I believe that this is not a good application for friction rings as the the rope is doing a 180 . Blocks would be better IMO

8mm uncovered Dyneema turning 180 on a ring that is 22mm wide with smooth radius curves is just fine. To retain strength the pin must be at least one line diameter. More diameter helps reduce friction - ours is almost 3x diameter.

LFRs can be used effectively in either low travel high load scenarios and high travel low load scenarios - the reef clew is a combination of the two and the travel when loaded is not very much, perhaps 5cm. Since the Dyneema does not stretch there is no squalling. If there was, as with a double braid polyester line, then a block would be a good idea.

Our first and second reef clews have large diameter sheaves. The 8mm uncovered Dyneema just slides and doesn’t turn them.

[Outventure]

Hello to the original poster ,
I‘m curious if you have found a solution and if so, i would very much appreciate photos of how you attached the rings with which dyneema line.
I have the rings and different types of dyneema to attach to my new mainsail and there are so many options put there. I‘s be happy to splice as well. Looking for real world experience as to how much the low friction rings improved reefing and the running of the lines.
Thanks a lot!

[fxykty]

Our old main had large clew blocks for reefs one and two and a simple stainless pressed ring for reef three. I attached a wide LFR with a Bullseye Soft Shackle (search for the CF thread by SWL) to that ring for the third reef and that worked very well.



Our new main has Rutgerson QRS45 rings https://www.rutgerson.se/product/quick-reef-solution/ for the leech lines for all three reef lines and these are really nice. Main benefit of these versus LFRs that are attached behind the leech is that there is nothing for the lazy jacks to get easily hung up on. But of course, they aren’t easy to retrofit.