Flags on the boom lift

[zboss]

We tried the backstay thing for a good while. It only took a few times over the years of the backstay block occasionally catching the boom topping lift during a gybe for me to determine this is a bad idea. We are removing the block.

Sure, we currently solve the problem by taking the slack out of the topping lift or making sure the boom vang is pulled in but sometimes it just gets forgotten and that "sometimes" always seems to be at night when crossing the gulf stream.

I'm just going to fly a flag of my davits and be done with it.

[LoudMusic]

Well I've temporarily attached my big flag to the boom lift with a secondary line using rolling hitches.

If/when I get motivated I think I'd like to make a dedicated 'extension' to the boom lift that has a snap shackle at each end and attach the flag to it. Then I can pop it in and out without too much trouble. And I can make another similar arrangement with a whole bunch of decorative flags to add into the scheme when appropriate.

[thereefgeek]

I recently made the mistake of installing a second flag halyard on the port spreader due to the prevailing wind causing the flag to flog on the mast and shrouds when hung from the starboard spreader.

I did a bit of research on flag etiquette after the fact, and promptly relocated it to the backstay. We plan to add wind vane self steering so a stern flag staff was not an option, and yes, I realize it's not 2/3 up the backstay. But it's better than nothing.

Our video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtQsrrSzt4A

[LoudMusic]

More flag questions.

First off, I've been using hitches to attach my American flag to my boom topping lift. It's a pain to raise/lower but looks pretty great. I intend to attach a block to the topping lift and a cleat to the boom end at some point to make the process easier. Laziness has been getting the better of me.

We've been in the States for the past several months, for reasons, and I've been flying our home state flag on port spreader and our host state flag on the starboard spreader, because flags are fun. The American flag is obviously larger, and obviously higher so everything seems pretty good to me, in terms of flag etiquette. Except for maybe the time we flew a giant Texas flag above our Arkansas flag, but we did have an even bigger American flag above that.

All this came about because our original ensign mount was displaced by new solar panel install. I still want to have a mount back there, and I have ideas, but flying an American flag back there would definitely put it lower than our state flag(s) flown from spreaders. Is someone going to throw poo at me if I do that or is that an acceptable flag arrangement? I feel like I see boats cruising around with an American flag on their stern and a state flag on their spreader.

[Montanan]

Reference: Updated Flag Code for Recreational Boats - U.S. Power Squadron

https://www.usps.org/f_stuff/etiquett.html#updated-code

Snipet there from:

While the United States Flag Code, USC Title 4, Chapter 1, provides general guidelines for the display of the U.S. flag, nautical flag display is based on long-standing traditions that date back over 300 years.

The United States Power Squadrons, the worlds largest boating educational organization, developed an updated code for displaying flags on boats in 1998. This code, devised in consultation with the U.S. Coast Guard, Coast Guard Auxiliary, New York Yacht Club, and other yachting authorities, eliminates confusion and will help you show proper respect for each flag and pennant you fly.

This code is primarily for use on private vessels because small craft are so different from large ships; yet it is flexible enough to accommodate the wide variation in construction of most modern pleasure craft. The code applies to all boaters, but has specific application to members of groups such as yacht clubs, the U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary, and the United States Power Squadrons.

While points of honor have been established by long tradition, new configurations of boats, rigging and the like have modified these points. Using antennas, fishing towers, outriggers, sailboat backstays, portside halyards, and double hoisting are all new to the flag code. Even though traditionalists may think they are incorrect, these flag display techniques are appropriate today. If your boat's configurations requires you to use any of these techniques to fly your colors, do so, but follow this code to do so correctly.


The U.S. national ensign, sometimes called "50-star" or "Old Glory," is the proper and preferred flag for all U.S. vessels. Your boat should wear it from 0800 until sunset, and when you enter or leave port during daylight or at night, weather and rig permitting. While in port, if you leave your boat and will not return before sunset, lower and stow the national ensign before you go.

The national ensign worn by a vessel must be the flag of her registry—not necessarily that of the owner or operator.

Generally, the national ensign should be displayed at the peak of the gaff, i.e., the outer end of the spar extending aft from the mast of your boat—if you boat has a gaff. If it does not, fly it from the flagstaff at your boat's stern. If your boat has an overhanging boom or an outboard motor, your flagstaff may be offset to starboard (preferably) from your boat's centerline.

On a sportfishing boat, where a stern staff might interfere with the gear, and vice versa, the practice is to fly the ensign from a halyard rigged amidships on the after part of the superstructure.

Marconi-rigged sailboats may fly the ensign from the leech of the aftermost sail (or from the back stay), approximately 2/3 the distance up its length. This puts it in about the same position it would occupy if the boat were gaff-rigged.

At anchor or made fast, the ensign should be flown from the stern staff of all boats. The U.S. national ensign has a 10:19 hoist/fly ratio.


Courtesy Flags


IMO, flying a State flag is a form of a courtesy flag as a vessel does not attain its nationality from a state, instead it's nationality is tht of the Union of the States. As to courtesy flags in general such as multiple State flags, the waters in which the vessel resides seems to be the superior ordered flag, rather than your home state flag.

When you visit foreign water, your boat should display a courtesy flag (the civil ensign of the country you are visiting) whenever your U.S. national ensign (the USPS ensign or the yacht ensign should not be displayed in foreign waters) is displayed. (The USPS ensign and U.S. yacht ensign should not be worn in foreign waters)

If your vessel is mastless, it should wear this "courtesy flag" at the bow, in lieu of a squadron or club burgee, or on a starboard antenna strong enough to support it. It your vessel has one or more masts, display it single-hoisted at the outboard signal halyard of the main starboard spreader. Move any flag normally flown there to the inboard starboard halyard or, if your boat has only one halyard per side, to the port spreader halyard.

The customs observed in various foreign waters differ from one another. Try to learn the correct procedure for the country you are entering. For example, is some countries it is customary to fly the courtesy flag only after the quarantine flag (the yellow 'Q' flag) and the vessel has been granted pratique by the appropriate authorities.

Do not fly a foreign courtesy flag after you have returned to U.S. waters. It is not to be used as a badge of accomplishment for having cruised to another country.


Foreign Guest Flags
When a foreign guest is aboard, you may display the ensign of the guest's country from the bow staff or outboard port spreader. Should more than one such guest flag be appropriate, wear them on spreader halyards from port to starboard in the alphabetical order of their countries' names in the English language.

Alternative Display Locations

Avoid flying more than one ensign from a single halyard or antenna. On the other hand, when the preferred positions for an organizational burgee or officer flag are not available, you may fly these from spreader halyard, with more than one on a hoist if necessary. In such instances however, you must observe the proper order of precedence. If you must multiple-hoist these flags, no more than one flag of the same type or stature may be flown from the same halyard. Each flag must be senior to the one below it, except that the officer-in-charge pennant may be placed above the officer flag when it is appropriate to do so. When neither the preferred location nor a spreader halyard is available, a radio antenna may be used. Never fly any other flag on the same halyard as, or on a halyard to starboard of, a courtesy flag

[slug]

Originally Posted by LoudMusic

When our solar panel rack was installed on the stern they had to remove our ensign mount. I've been flying our (sadly tattered) USA flag on the port spreader, but I'd like to fly our newer larger USA flag from the boom lift. What is the best way to accomplish this?

My first thought was to use a secondary line clipped end to end with the boom lift. Then I thought to leave the boom lift as is and attach the flag with rolling hitches to it. I don't think I like either of these.

There's probably a better way, surely?

Stick is on the topsides

[a64pilot]

To try to make it simple the no flag flown higher than the US flag is a ground flag pole thing. It’s not a Marine thing, ref. a courtesy flag is flown higher than the Ensign.
I fly mine on my aft stay about 2/3 of the way up, it’s not quite 2/3’s I don’t think so it should be a bit higher.
Good luck finding a correctly dimensioned flag ie 10x19, they don’t exist. You’ll have to live with 2x3 or 3x5 and in the 2x3 size, good luck finding a good quality flag.

[Montanan]

FYI:
https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us-size.html


United States flag law does not specify the proportions of the flag. The proportions of 10:19, so often quoted, are the product of an executive order of the president, and are actually binding only in certain military uses. The United States government buys and uses flags in several other proportions (2:3, 3:5, 5:8) for numerous civilian and military applications. Private citizens are free to use their own judgment.

The proportions of the U.S. flag are almost the same as those of British naval ensigns in the 1770's. They attained this rather strange proportion because the table of sizes, issued by Samuel Pepys, Secretary of the Admiralty in 1687, laid down that flags should be made a yard long for every breadth of bewper (bunting) used in their construction. At the time bewper was 22 inches wide, so 22 x 36 gave the excellent proportions of 11:18, which are the whole numbers, near the "Golden Ratio" of 1 : 1.618. Later, bewper was woven in successively smaller widths, but the flags were still made-up in yard lengths. Consequently the proportions changed from 11:18 in 1687 to 1:2 in 1837. In the 1770's bewper was 19 inches wide, so the flags then had the proportions 19:36 or 9.5:18; very close to 10:19.

The source for U.S. flag proportions is actually Executive Order 10834"

[Montanan]

Flags made of Tough-Tex including "proper" ratios.

https://carrot-top.com/tough-tex-ame..._wcB#sin=14012

Some truly impressive star spangled banners.

5 feet X 9 feet 6 inches.

10 feet X 19 feet.

20 feet X 38 feet.

30 feet X 60 feet. Going to need a tall mast for that one. Like the CGC Eagle pictured below

Photosails Sailboat Branding has a truly impressive display.
Recommended viewing the link below:

http://www.photosails.com/images/sto...agboat2117.jpg

[dfelsent]

Ahh. You have missed the rare case where the us state you are in has a naval ensign. (There are three, Mass is one. )
And you have are a ketch. And have a personal signal. And a yacht club burgee. And your wife has a different club burgee. And she is a lifetime member and her father was a three time Commodore. And there are a large number of foreign yachts visiting that you want to honor by flying their ensign.
Oh yes and it’s the 4th of July and so a national holiday but at least mid week not Sunday. And you want to dress ship. And someone gave you a big bag of 1930s big signal flags. And your dad gave you a bunch more National and provincial flags off his boat.

Well we put up lots of pretty colored cloth, in more or less appropriate places, waterline to mizzen peak to main peak to waterline. Inner forestay to deck. Starboard main spreader. Mizzen flag staff. Main truck. Stern staff.
No one complained.

It fun!
And a vexillological disaster too. [emoji1]

[SurlySailor]

I have a large flag that I hoist on holidays and such. I hoist it on the the topping lift (in my case that’s the main hailyard on a 38 foot boat). For the setup I made up a small length of dynmea that is the length of the luff of the flag and connect the flag to that. I connect the hailyard to a loop on the dynmea and connect a line between end of boom and a loop on the other end of the dynmea. It works pretty well and allows me to tension the topping lift to keep the boom up without having the flag carry the load of the line.

I have a 600 foot spool I keep onboard for various lashings and small projects like this.