Watermaker Usage Question: I have an old Spectra

[NYSail]

Originally Posted by Chotu

And I guess that’s just it. Would you run that water maker that you want to have in the harbor in Long Island? That’s really the crux of my question.

How about in the Hudson river?

I have to wonder if it’s worth it. I have to go through a lot to get it working. I also know I need a membrane. I may actually have to put in a through hull. Which I really really really don’t want to do. I may just put a pickup tube over the edge instead.

But if I go through all of this hassle and expense and can’t use the water maker in Harbors, then what is the point? When I’m on the passage, the water usually lasts. I’m not sitting around showering and having a bunch of guests over doing the same on a passage. I’m not going transatlantic in the near future. It’s more of like a mission up and down the east coast. The time you spend actually sailing between harbors is no more than a few days. It’s definitely not the majority of what the boat is doing. It’s at anchor most of the time. In harbors.

For those reasons I kind of feel like a watermaker is just for dreaming. Like you have it ready to go for that dream trip in some remote islands or something where there is no water available. But in reality, your boat isn’t there. It’s in a harbor.

So I really need to know if I can use this in the harbor or if it’s nearly worthless.

And that’s why it’s low on our priority list. I can get water easily where I am currently sailing on the LI Sound out to Martha’s Vineyard. But we hope one day to head to Bahamas and that’s when I will get one.

Also, when I do get one, I plan to convert one of my tanks to an additional fuel tank to double my fuel tankage to 100+ gallons which will be nice while cruising.

If I did have one though I would not hesitate to use it out towards the end of the island / block island sound….. but not in the western sound due to all the algae in the water.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by NYSail

And that’s why it’s low on our priority list. I can get water easily where I am currently sailing on the LI Sound out to Martha’s Vineyard. But we hope one day to head to Bahamas and that’s when I will get one.

Also, when I do get one, I plan to convert one of my tanks to an additional fuel tank to double my fuel tankage to 100+ gallons which will be nice while cruising.

If I did have one though I would not hesitate to use it out towards the end of the island / block island sound….. but not in the western sound due to all the algae in the water.

Now that’s a good question. Western Long Island sound. Algae.

That’s just a matter of the pre-filters right? You have to clean them a lot? Or is it somehow unsafe to drink or damaging to the membranes?

And I agree with you completely. Eastern Long Island sound no problem on the water maker. That water is very nice. Very clean and pure.

I wish there was a solid answer for this.

Like you know how there is a solid answer for the product water? You measured the TDS? Why isn’t there something like that to decide if you can make water?

Would measuring the Turbidy help? Or is it more than that?

[markxengineerin]

Tellie said it best, something along the lines of "watermakers are offshore equipment"

Based on looking around, a very very small percentage of boats can justify having a watermaker. These are the ones who travel almost constantly. I have one myself and definitely can't justify it, in retrospect. It is far easier, cheaper, and time-efficient to tie up to a fuel dock and fill water tanks. The membrane anxiety, the pre-filter cleaning, the pump maintenance, the system performance logging, the shipping of special replacement parts, it all adds up to a significant hassle vs. the alternative.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by markxengineerin

Tellie said it best, something along the lines of "watermakers are offshore equipment"

Based on looking around, a very very small percentage of boats can justify having a watermaker. These are the ones who travel almost constantly. I have one myself and definitely can't justify it, in retrospect. It is far easier, cheaper, and time-efficient to tie up to a fuel dock and fill water tanks. The membrane anxiety, the pre-filter cleaning, the pump maintenance, the system performance logging, the shipping of special replacement parts, it all adds up to a significant hassle vs. the alternative.

That’s where my thoughts are going with this as well.

Seems pointless unless mid ocean.

Over the years I’ve read so many posts from people who love their watermakers and talk about great drinking water and lots of showers. Typically on similar size cats that have lots of solar.

That’s what had me thinking I need one. That and every ex I have. They always wanted a watermaker for long showers and unlimited land-esque water use.

But it’s hard to imagine they are useful if you can’t run them in most harbors, where a North American boat typically spends 95% of its time.

What I ought to do is get the bladder and make people go get their own shower water.

I have a lot of space in this boat. My interior design sucks.

At first it was going to get cut up like a charter boat. Then life changed. It’s now my home. It’s good size and set up like a prout or Catalac still, only larger. Stupid huge shower/storage area, a head that takes up most of a hull. 2 staterooms forward,. Galley down plus pantry taking up the whole other hull.

So…. I may have lots of places for water tankage that can be filled in harbors, then not filled when traveling. Although I find it mentally difficult not to take every available resource when traveling in case of emergency.

This is a very tough decision. I had no idea it would become one. I was thinking water maker was the no brainer.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

That’s where my thoughts are going with this as well.

Seems pointless unless mid ocean.

Over the years I’ve read so many posts from people who love their watermakers and talk about great drinking water and lots of showers. Typically on similar size cats that have lots of solar.

That’s what had me thinking I need one. That and every ex I have. They always wanted a watermaker for long showers and unlimited land-esque water use.

But it’s hard to imagine they are useful if you can’t run them in most harbors, where a North American boat typically spends 95% of its time.

What I ought to do is get the bladder and make people go get their own shower water.

I have a lot of space in this boat. My interior design sucks.

At first it was going to get cut up like a charter boat. Then life changed. It’s now my home. It’s good size and set up like a prout or Catalac still, only larger. Stupid huge shower/storage area, a head that takes up most of a hull. 2 staterooms forward,. Galley down plus pantry taking up the whole other hull.

So…. I may have lots of places for water tankage that can be filled in harbors, then not filled when traveling. Although I find it mentally difficult not to take every available resource when traveling in case of emergency.

This is a very tough decision. I had no idea it would become one. I was thinking water maker was the no brainer.

Depending on how often and where you find yourself traveling, maybe it makes sense to have the watermaker. When you're getting towards the end of a travel segment, fire it up and arrive with the nice, big tanks full (having left them low to save weight for most of the run). Then you only have to haul water after a few days if you're staying somewhere that isn't clean enough to run the WM. And if you go out for a day sail, you can similarly fire up the WM and come back in with a load of water.

[smj]

If you figure the costs of the watermaker, installation, maintenance and possible fuel to run it if AC driven, what does it ad up to cost per gallon?
I’ve thought about it many times, but never made financial sense.

[bullislandken]

Flushing water for your WM should have a carbon filter in case of the presence of chlorine. Cl can damage your membrane.

[bullislandken]

I bought a used Little Wonder in 2002. We used it often and productivity increased. I learned they love to be used.

A few years ago we bought a Leopard catamaran from owners that were tied to marinas. He said the Spectra Cape Horn WM was pickled with RV antifreeze for three years so we didn’t even know if it worked. I got it going and it worked for me for three years and productivity increased to more than it’s rated production. When it came time to pickle it, I saw in the Spectra manual they said RV antifreeze could really be used for pickling. I did it three times and it worked great.

RV antifreeze (pink pop to us) is readily available and inexpensive so it could be done whenever necessary. But I can agree that if you were frequently in a dirty harbor or didn’t use the WM regularly, that it could be pickled until someone wants to go cruising.

I tend to anchor out. I also found that growing up on the Detroit River as a teen, I became a clear/clean water snob later in life. While I loved cruising in the Dominican Republic, the water quality brought back memories from my past in dirty/polluted water. I try to move on to clear water for our anchorages.

A recent visit to my old neighborhood (from1970) on Grosse Ile in the Detroit River showed better water clarity and quality than I would have expected. EPA has done some good….industry has moved on…….. and the zebra mussels may be helping, too.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Depending on how often and where you find yourself traveling, maybe it makes sense to have the watermaker. When you're getting towards the end of a travel segment, fire it up and arrive with the nice, big tanks full (having left them low to save weight for most of the run). Then you only have to haul water after a few days if you're staying somewhere that isn't clean enough to run the WM. And if you go out for a day sail, you can similarly fire up the WM and come back in with a load of water.

This is definitely an idea. Probably the ideal way to do it. Flexibility would be nice.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by smj

If you figure the costs of the watermaker, installation, maintenance and possible fuel to run it if AC driven, what does it ad up to cost per gallon?
I’ve thought about it many times, but never made financial sense.

I am approaching $1/gal. So still twice as much has paying for RO water in the Bahamas.

But not having to plan around being able to go to a marina, the hassle of acturally going, or having to "jug it" well that is priceless.

Getting a watermaker never makes finical sense and I talked myself out of one for years. But once you have one, and use it, you will love having it.

It is just like talking yourself in/out of having refrigeration. People don"t "need" that, they just convince themselves that they do.

Tis thread basically comes down to "are you too cheap to buy pre-filters instead of jugging water".

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

This is definitely an idea. Probably the ideal way to do it. Flexibility would be nice.

That's exactly it. In some areas, a watermaker is really useful. In other areas, it's just a nice to have. You may not necessarily need it (as there are ample sources of water), but sometimes being able to make your own is just convenient.

Heck, even on the Great Lakes I've thought about a watermaker or a really serious filter system to be able to make lake water drinkable (just as a matter of convenience).

[BlueH2Obound]

We'll have to agree to disagree about watermakers only being useful offshore. With minimal precautions we don't have any hesitance about using them in harbors, unless in heavily polluted areas, or areas of extreme silt.

First, as mentioned up thread, most people's supply of Raw Water comes from a point below water line, in our case, about 38" below water line. The vast majority of petroleum products will float on or near the surface of the water. I am more concerned with turbidity in the water than I am petroleum products.

For that reason, we installed a pre filter in our system when we originally put it in. Our water maker already has 2 each 10" size filters, the first being 20 micron, the second is 5 micron. We installed the following "Spa" filter between the raw water supply pump and the 20 micron filter:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...e?ie=UTF8&th=1

This filter catches most of the large crud in the water, is pleated, has a MUCH LARGER square footage of the 10" filters, and is washable.

On the subject of washability, (yup, that's a word, I just made it up) per the suggestion of our water maker's manufacturer, to "wash" our filters when they get dirty, get say a 50' piece of small line, 1/4" to 3/8" works well, put a small disk with a knot a the end, and thread the line down the center of the filters. cleat them off to the boat while underway, and toss them overboard to trail behind the boat. In no time, they will be flushed from the inside out. Reuse to your hearts content. Filters are relatively inexpensive, but why generate the garbage when you can reuse them and save $$ and waste?

When we are in port with good water for a long time, we often use dock water. We just set the water maker to back flush for 5 minutes or so every three days, changing out the charcoal filter periodically.

Given the cost of our watermaker, and the number of gallons of water produced, we are at about $1.70/gallon right now. By the time we go down to the Sea of Cortez (for the Winter), through the Panama Canal, and over to the Bahama's we expect to be down to about $0.42/gallon or thereabouts. WELL worth the cost of the water maker, besides, for us, it's not about "Return on Investment", or $$ savings, it's about Quality of Life! We just don't have to scrimp on water at all.

On usage, for two people, taking 1 shower each/day, doing laundry, drinking water, washing dishes, fresh water flush in the head, here in the PNW, we use between 20 and 25 gallons a day for the two of us. I expect that to go up somewhat in the tropics, as we will likely be taking a fresh water shower/rinsing off dive gear every time we get out of the water. But our solar is more than up to the task of making water, as well as doing laundry (including drying), and is expected to run one of the air conditioner units as well in the heat of the day (and height of the sun).

As many have postulated here, having a watermaker is probably not a "necessity", but for us, that and having a washing machine on the boat is the difference between "Camping", and "Living"!

[Bill O]

Like the idea of the cleanable gross filter. What canister did you use for a housing?

[Chotu]

Thank you! This is a great post. I’d be curious to know about the housing for that spa filter also. Is that just a standard housing that you can get at a Home Depot or something?


This could really be the way to go. For Turbidy, do you actually have a quantitative way to measure it? Or do you just kind of look in the water and see if it looks cloudy?

I’m thinking it all has to do with turbidity.

And I really love the idea of just washing out the filters from time to time.

I think you have convinced me to give it a go. Why not? I already have the water maker. But I do have to buy a new membrane for it. God knows what else isn’t working. Pumps. Who knows?

But I’ll give it a shot. If the Clark pump is gone then maybe it’s not going to be happening. But if that Clark pump is working, then I should be good to go.

My electrical system, like yours, is definitely up for it. By noon I already have all of my power. And I only have half of the solar panels hooked up right now. So I have way too much power. It would be good to put that into making water.

Originally Posted by BlueH2Obound

We'll have to agree to disagree about watermakers only being useful offshore. With minimal precautions we don't have any hesitance about using them in harbors, unless in heavily polluted areas, or areas of extreme silt.

First, as mentioned up thread, most people's supply of Raw Water comes from a point below water line, in our case, about 38" below water line. The vast majority of petroleum products will float on or near the surface of the water. I am more concerned with turbidity in the water than I am petroleum products.

For that reason, we installed a pre filter in our system when we originally put it in. Our water maker already has 2 each 10" size filters, the first being 20 micron, the second is 5 micron. We installed the following "Spa" filter between the raw water supply pump and the 20 micron filter:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...e?ie=UTF8&th=1

This filter catches most of the large crud in the water, is pleated, has a MUCH LARGER square footage of the 10" filters, and is washable.

On the subject of washability, (yup, that's a word, I just made it up) per the suggestion of our water maker's manufacturer, to "wash" our filters when they get dirty, get say a 50' piece of small line, 1/4" to 3/8" works well, put a small disk with a knot a the end, and thread the line down the center of the filters. cleat them off to the boat while underway, and toss them overboard to trail behind the boat. In no time, they will be flushed from the inside out. Reuse to your hearts content. Filters are relatively inexpensive, but why generate the garbage when you can reuse them and save $$ and waste?

When we are in port with good water for a long time, we often use dock water. We just set the water maker to back flush for 5 minutes or so every three days, changing out the charcoal filter periodically.

Given the cost of our watermaker, and the number of gallons of water produced, we are at about $1.70/gallon right now. By the time we go down to the Sea of Cortez (for the Winter), through the Panama Canal, and over to the Bahama's we expect to be down to about $0.42/gallon or thereabouts. WELL worth the cost of the water maker, besides, for us, it's not about "Return on Investment", or $$ savings, it's about Quality of Life! We just don't have to scrimp on water at all.

On usage, for two people, taking 1 shower each/day, doing laundry, drinking water, washing dishes, fresh water flush in the head, here in the PNW, we use between 20 and 25 gallons a day for the two of us. I expect that to go up somewhat in the tropics, as we will likely be taking a fresh water shower/rinsing off dive gear every time we get out of the water. But our solar is more than up to the task of making water, as well as doing laundry (including drying), and is expected to run one of the air conditioner units as well in the heat of the day (and height of the sun).

As many have postulated here, having a watermaker is probably not a "necessity", but for us, that and having a washing machine on the boat is the difference between "Camping", and "Living"!

[BlueH2Obound]

Here is the filter housing:

https://www.wildwestpoolsupplies.com...-sq-ft-172504/

Ours is actually a little older, but this is the new version.

On gauging turbidity, we just look. If it looks slightly cloudy, I'll check the pre-filter after a say 4 hours, which would be about 150 gallons or so. If it looks like chocolate, I'll probably forego making water till conditions improve. While in harbor, we tend to make water on an incoming tide, rather than an outgoing, as the water is clearer. Hope this helps!


Edit: Here is a less expensive filter housing, using the same filter:
https://www.google.com/search?q=dyna...17706999522881
This is the exact same one as we have.