Water maker comps

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Sorry but I don't know enough to understand what watermaker make or model you're referring to here, nor have I ever heard of a "plunger pump".

I don't plan to have any AC at all except when (very rarely) at a marina.

If some AC device proves to be mission-critical, I'd also need to purchase an appropriate inverter to run it.

Most all watermakers use a plunger pump of some sort, CAT and General pumps are an example of standard plunger pumps. Spectra makes a 120 gallon per hour watermaker that will use less energy than a standard plunger pump designed to make 25-30 gallons per hour.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Tellie

Spectra makes a 120 gallon per hour watermaker that will use less energy than a standard plunger pump designed to make 25-30 gallons per hour.

I've repeated endlessly that Iconsider energy efficiency to be irrelevant to my use case.

So is noise, up to a point I guess.

I'm looking for high gph and DC powered.

High reliability, easy to maintain in third world conditions, as non-proprietary as possible, help / service responsiveness approaching Rich's, and of course initial price is an important issue.

___
Ability to set it up for semi-portability would be a nice feature

as would the ability to use with fresh / brackish water inland.

Realizing those last two may not be feasible.

[Tampabayfireman]

Ok for some real life experience over the last 2+ months on the hook here in Key West shaking down the boat before a trip to the Bahamas.

We have 480 watts of solar on approximately 800 amp battery bank.

We have the Spectra 200T 12 volt WM. We run it every other day and produce around 35 -40 gal a day. From solar and occasionally wind. Draw is around 9amps so well within our power curve. And real world production of 7+ gal an hr. Totally one switch on or off.

Now our reasoning was a couple of things. First, I am not using fuel whether it’s diesel or gas for the engine or generator. I don’t have to worry that I will run out before refilling in some small island.

Second, reliable being not dependent on electronic Add-ons.

We looked at many options including rain-man and others 110/12vt systems. The dealer we went thru really suggested we go with the larger unit drawing 18 amps. Shorter runtime larger output but we knew what to expect on our usage and energy output

Happy? No, extremely happy. Rather than clog up bandwidth email me and can share spreadsheet on solar and water output as well as our usages.

Two important things we did was installing output counter on both usage and production rates.

[rom]

Originally Posted by kenbo

Unless you have some form of energy recovery in your WM or your 12vdc motor was stolen from the space program, I have to disagree that 100l/h can be produced from 600w. Have you captured your product water and measured it? Or is that the manufacturer's claimed output. About the best a 1/2hp motor can produce is about 50-55l/h. That's simply the physics of watermaking.

I did some measurements yesterday of my Dessalator DC100, I'm sure some cruisers here will be interested in such real life numbers, it would be nice to have reports for other brands.

Power consumption: 49A @ 12.76V steady, that is about 625W
Water production (average on two measures that were almost identical): 72l/h
Water temp (~1m below WL, at WM input): 17.5°C

Dessalator says between 2.5 to 5% less output per degree below 25°C. I checked echotech, they say 2% per degree. Dessalor is rated at 25°C, echotech at 26°C.

So if using average value from Dessalator, that is 3.75% per °C, then at 17.5° I should get 100l/h x (1 - 3.75*(25-17.5)/100) = 72 l/h !!!

if Echotech is right with 2% per °C, then I should be getting 85l/h

I will need to wait a few months before I can make a measure in 25°C to know if I really have a 100l/h WM... The ouput meter of my WM is wrong anyway as it has always shown values above 100l/h. I sent an email to Dessalator.

@Kenbo: Though a bit disappointing to me, those numbers are above your expectations dictated by the "physics of WM". I'd like to know what you think about that.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by john61ct

I've repeated endlessly that Iconsider energy efficiency to be irrelevant to my use case.

So is noise, up to a point I guess.

I'm looking for high gph and DC powered.

High reliability, easy to maintain in third world conditions, as non-proprietary as possible, help / service responsiveness approaching Rich's, and of course initial price is an important issue.

___
Ability to set it up for semi-portability would be a nice feature

as would the ability to use with fresh / brackish water inland.

Realizing those last two may not be feasible.

Non proprietary parts are good, but aside from plumbing bits you are unlikely to find any water maker related parts of any kind in remote places, proprietary or otherwise. So you need spares aboard or ship in parts.

With appropriate parts, Spectras are very much field repairable.

Tech support is awesome.

Up front price...not so awesome.

Just to try and help clarify a bit more about the plunger pump. This is a high pressure pump, like the injector pump on a diesel engine. This is what most water makers use to create high pressure water. Spectra does not use one. They use a pressure intensifier (the Clark Pump).

[belizesailor]

(Dup deleted)

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Tampabayfireman

Ok for some real life experience over the last 2+ months on the hook here in Key West shaking down the boat before a trip to the Bahamas.

We have 480 watts of solar on approximately 800 amp battery bank.

We have the Spectra 200T 12 volt WM. We run it every other day and produce around 35 -40 gal a day. From solar and occasionally wind. Draw is around 9amps so well within our power curve. And real world production of 7+ gal an hr. Totally one switch on or off.

Now our reasoning was a couple of things. First, I am not using fuel whether it’s diesel or gas for the engine or generator. I don’t have to worry that I will run out before refilling in some small island.

Second, reliable being not dependent on electronic Add-ons.

We looked at many options including rain-man and others 110/12vt systems. The dealer we went thru really suggested we go with the larger unit drawing 18 amps. Shorter runtime larger output but we knew what to expect on our usage and energy output

Happy? No, extremely happy. Rather than clog up bandwidth email me and can share spreadsheet on solar and water output as well as our usages.

Two important things we did was installing output counter on both usage and production rates.

I think describing why you are not entirely happy here for the benefit of others would be a very good use of bandwidth.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Paul L

For a boat and travels like you plan, a decent sized AC watermaker certainly makes sense. In your case: A boat that is dependent on it's genset for normal operations. Large tankage. Small solar availability. Dumping excess heat into the boat is a good thing. Larger crew size.

Your comments on complexity are off the mark. The complexity in watermakers where you see common problems is in the automated systems. These require many sensors plus electronics.
The Spectra Cape Horn that I used for output and a pricing example up this thread has two pumps that can be used together or singly, making a nice backup, and is a fully manual watermaker. They also allow a low power mode.

If you want a reliable watermaker then get a manual model that is sized to your usage case so that it is used every few days. Watermakers do much better when used regularly.



Why make a statement that a Spectra is double the cost when I put the actual prices above in this thread and they are not?

I think that Paul's post here contains more exact information than what I posted, and I thank him for clearing up.

But still, I think John 61's general point stands. Making water with diesel power -- prioritize liters per hour, not efficiency. Making water with solar -- prioritize efficiency, not liters per hour.

[sailorboy1]

Gee guys, get the wm you like and stop worrying that someone else thinks theirs is a better choice (for them). It's simple, if you have lots of battery/solar/wind get a DC wm, if you AC power source get an AC wm. The goal is make water, not be efficient etc.

Sorry, you may now return to winning the discussion.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

I dunno, 60db can be pretty irritating...depending on who's involved in the conversation! [emoji16]

A thought I just had regarding noise. Like my conversation reference above, noise has more characteristics than just db. The Spectra Clark Pump makes a cyclical "hiss, thump..." noise. By contrast other things on boats make a steady, but louder noise...engines for example. Personally, I sleep quite well in the precense of a regular noise like a main engine, generator, or fan...in fact they help to drown out all the little irregular annoying noises.

Maybe some percieve the Spectra as being loud/annoying because of the irregular nature of the noise it makes?

[TheOffice]

This is like a discussion of anchors. People tend to defend the choices they made. Anecdotal info is ok, facts are better.
Lots of good info here.
Don't have a WM but trying to learn.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Gee guys, get the wm you like and stop worrying that someone else thinks theirs is a better choice (for them). It's simple, if you have lots of battery/solar/wind get a DC wm, if you AC power source get an AC wm.

These discussions help clarify the various factors for those that are interested, especially noobs like me. Those not interested can just stop participating.

_____
And BTW my use case, high-output DC only power sources

fits neither of your examples.

Which is why I'm looking for DC with high gph output, to be run only while high-amp sources are charging.

Or maybe adding an inverter if the right unit, at the right price, comes only in AC.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

A thought I just had regarding noise. Like my conversation reference above, noise has more characteristics than just db ...
... Maybe some perceive the Spectra as being loud/annoying because of the irregular, but intermittent nature of the noise it makes?

Indeed, you're definitely on to something (very complicated) there.

[Tellie]

Like I tell my customers. Choosing a watermaker for your boat and your needs I use the Goldilocks approach. You give me ten identical boats and I'll show you ten different applications and ten different installs all based on the owners needs, wants, and boats capabilities. There is no one set up that will work for everyone. As soon as I read "Buy the biggest producing watermaker you can", "If you have a generator buy an AC driven watermaker", "If you have a Honda2000 go AC", "Run it off your inverter", "Access to non proprietary parts is most important", "DC watermakers don't produce enough for my needs" etc. etc. etc, I know I've got a lot of educational work ahead of me. Like I showed above, I can get you into a DC watermaker that will make 120 gallons an hour that will run off of a Honda2000. But if I tell a customer to pull out a Honda and a Home Depot extension cord to operate such a watermaker I'm getting tossed off the boat. If you think energy efficiency isn't important even with a generator on board then you still have a way to go to understanding why it is important. Everything that draws power on a boat should be energy efficient whether it's a 26" mono or a 200" Mega Yacht. You can shop the lure of price only, but as with many other things watermakers included, this is usually the worst way to buy anything especially on a boat. There's a reason there are many different types of watermakers to choose from. I see dozens of customers every year that went their own way that have quickly come to the realization that they should have asked the people that do this for a living first. The back of my shop every year gets littered with watermakers that were a great idea on the boards. Watermakers are not cheap, even the cheap ones aren't cheap. Make a phone call to those that really do know what they are talking about. We'll be more than happy to talk to you for hours to help find out what best suits your needs wants and boats capabilities. We'll help you understand why one is too small and why one is too big. You might even spend a bit more than you wanted to, but I assure you, a bad watermaker choice will haunt you for as long as you own it or it ends up on my trash heap. Call us, we don't bite, and if another manufacturers watermaker better suits your needs we'll tell you. We do this all the time.

HaldenMarineService@yahoo.com
(954) 515-7077

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by john61ct

These discussions help clarify the various factors for those that are interested, especially noobs like me. Those not interested can just stop participating.

_____
And BTW my use case, high-output DC only power sources

fits neither of your examples.

Which is why I'm looking for DC with high gph output, to be run only while high-amp sources are charging.

Or maybe adding an inverter if the right unit, at the right price, comes only in AC.

You'll want the inverter anyway.

I run all sorts of 230v equipment off my inverter when motoring in calm weather. A tradition on my boat is washing and drying a couple of loads of clothes while transiting the Kiel Canal!