Water Heater Placement on a 36 Footer

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

is your gas instalation an approved one?

That's the only issue I see with the gas setup. I'm no longer in Australia so it isn't a concern for me.

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

is your gas instalation an approved one?

There are a variety of opinions about using gas for this purpose. These opinions have been discussed widely and not worth repeating here probably.

Some people have not yet had an explosion and so feel comfortable that nothing could ever happen to them.

Others of us are painfully aware of the fact that LPG has about double the explosive power of TNT per gram, and has a wide range of explosive mixture (from memory 9% to 19%), and that there are a dozen ways it can leak out of such an appliance.





But don't worry, it could never happen to you!

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Attachment 121750

That was one heck of a party.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by GILow

That was one heck of a party.

Believe it or not, before the propane explosion, that was a boat!

http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/ar...NEWS/302029987

The owner was killed.

Sent from my D6633 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

... LPG has ... a wide range of explosive mixture (from memory 9% to 19%) ...

More like 2.1 -to- 9.5%

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

There are a variety of opinions about using gas for this purpose. These opinions have been discussed widely and not worth repeating here probably.

Some people have not yet had an explosion and so feel comfortable that nothing could ever happen to them.

Others of us are painfully aware of the fact that LPG has about double the explosive power of TNT per gram, and has a wide range of explosive mixture (from memory 9% to 19%), and that there are a dozen ways it can leak out of such an appliance.

Attachment 121750



But don't worry, it could never happen to you!

Yes, well as I've already indicated after recent deaths in Tasmania it's left me a little paranoid. Im keeping an LPG stove, but that's the only thing I now intend to have that is LPG and I intend next year to rebuild that system and it to be certified. In the mean time im religiously turning the system off at night and after meals. Most people's boats in Tasmania do not have certified gas systems and no one checks either. It doesnt have to be certified to be registered here, though it could affect your insurance. But my my safety and that of my family, i want mine to be certified.

Im a little surprised when people admit on CF, or as in the case two weeks ago i visited a guy on his boat who had an LPG heater in a cupboard and when in use he just open's the cupboard. It seems like it's playing Riussian roulette with his life. I don't think it would be easy to add a specific water heater flue to my deck either.

But, i entirely agree with Ann, if a system is safe then LPG is a very good way to go. But, a system that is not certified, is most likely, in my opinion, and in the legal sense, not safe.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

GILow, and RC,

FWIW, Jim and I have used propane flash heaters for our hot water for 30 yrs, since 1986. We were able to control the solenoid; the heaters were vented, and in the case in this boat is that their is a fan that comes on with the water pump, in addition to the vent. There has never been a problem with our installations. Although the concept may be uncomfortable for you guys, in fact, in our experience, it has worked flawlessly, and with simple plumbing, for years.

RC, not trying to convince you to change, but just wanting to make the point that if the installation is good, so can the experience be.

Ann

Ann,

I think there is a subtle difference between full time live aboard boats and weekenders like ours. Not sure about RC but our boat sits dormant 99% of the time and so I am not as " in touch" with the boat and its systems as a full time live aboard would be. I believe that for a weekender boat such as ours, systems should be engineered and selected to reflect the less than ideal maintenance and observation entailed in such a craft.

Therefore, I elected to remove our gas water heater, from a fully certified system I should add, because I don't feel as in touch with it as I should be to feel I could trust it.

Paranoid? Maybe, I do drive a Volvo after all, but I just didn't feel safe with such a system in a mostly dormant vessel.

Matt


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by GILow

Ann,

I think there is a subtle difference between full time live aboard boats and weekenders like ours. Not sure about RC but our boat sits dormant 99% of the time and so I am not as " in touch" with the boat and its systems as a full time live aboard would be. I believe that for a weekender boat such as ours, systems should be engineered and selected to reflect the less than ideal maintenance and observation entailed in such a craft.

Therefore, I elected to remove our gas water heater, from a fully certified system I should add, because I don't feel as in touch with it as I should be to feel I could trust it.

Paranoid? Maybe, I do drive a Volvo after all, but I just didn't feel safe with such a system in a mostly dormant vessel.

Matt


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Matt, (and others),

Just to clear things up a bit about our Paloma vented lpg water heater setup:

1. It does not stay on when not in use. The gas valve at the heater is closed, as well as all the internal valves.

2. It's only use is for our shower, and the shower is the only thing plumbed to the pressure pump (oops... the transom shower, cold only, is also on the pressure pump).

3. When the pressure pump is turned on, a fan also comes on w hich blows cabin air into the head/shower area.

4. The heater is directly vented via a very short 3 inch stack. It is a factory vent system, not a Heath R. set up.

5. There is the usual safety valve that shuts off the gas if the pilot goes out in the short time the heater is in use.

6. The whole gas system (stove, external bbq and water heater) is to code, but has not been recently certified. it was approved in 2003 in NSW when we bought the boat. Being US flagged now, the local authorities have little interest in us. Our insurance has shown no interest in this.

With our operating protocols, I do not fear the system.

Our usage is surely atypical... works for us!

Jim

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Matt, (and others),

Just to clear things up a bit about our Paloma vented lpg water heater setup:

1. It does not stay on when not in use. The gas valve at the heater is closed, as well as all the internal valves.

2. It's only use is for our shower, and the shower is the only thing plumbed to the pressure pump (oops... the transom shower, cold only, is also on the pressure pump).

3. When the pressure pump is turned on, a fan also comes on w hich blows cabin air into the head/shower area.

4. The heater is directly vented via a very short 3 inch stack. It is a factory vent system, not a Heath R. set up.

5. There is the usual safety valve that shuts off the gas if the pilot goes out in the short time the heater is in use.

6. The whole gas system (stove, external bbq and water heater) is to code, but has not been recently certified. it was approved in 2003 in NSW when we bought the boat. Being US flagged now, the local authorities have little interest in us. Our insurance has shown no interest in this.

With our operating protocols, I do not fear the system.

Our usage is surely atypical... works for us!

Jim

Sounds like a pretty good and safe system then.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

GILow, and RC,

FWIW, Jim and I have used propane flash heaters for our hot water for 30 yrs, since 1986. We were able to control the solenoid; the heaters were vented, and in the case in this boat is that their is a fan that comes on with the water pump, in addition to the vent. There has never been a problem with our installations. Although the concept may be uncomfortable for you guys, in fact, in our experience, it has worked flawlessly, and with simple plumbing, for years.

RC, not trying to convince you to change, but just wanting to make the point that if the installation is good, so can the experience be.

Ann

Hi Ann...Is the fan inline with the HWH exhaust? If it is, it's a great idea in the event of a back draft which I get on occasion if it's really windy outside. My HWH has a temp solenoid that kicks the gas off if the flame goes out.

[Celestialsailor]

I don't know what all the fear is about with a LPG HWH. I chimney mine above deck...No issue. If people vent them inside the boat and expect Carbon Monoxide to magically vent itself through an open hatch is asking for a problem.
I've never installed the AC/Engine types but have bought 2 boats with them onboard. Both were dead and leaking. That and they take up way too much room.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

I don't know what all the fear is about with a LPG HWH. I chimney mine above deck...No issue. If people vent them inside the boat and expect Carbon Monoxide to magically vent itself through an open hatch is asking for a problem.
I've never installed the AC/Engine types but have bought 2 boats with them onboard. Both were dead and leaking. That and they take up way too much room.

The 'fear' is with improperly installed LPG it can be and is frequently deadly.

[Celestialsailor]

I think frequently is over-stated.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

I think frequently is over-stated.

In todays, rather yesterday's (it's 4am here) Australian Maritime newsletter is an article on just this thing and the 'frequently increasing' deaths in Australia. I live on a small island (compared to the rest of Australia) of 450 000 pop, and a death seems to be occuring almost every year, just on our island. That's pretty damn frequent.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

In todays, rather yesterday's (it's 4am here) Australian Maritime newsletter is an article on just this thing and the 'frequently increasing' deaths in Australia. I live on a small island (compared to the rest of Australia) of 450 000 pop, and a death seems to be occuring almost every year, just on our island. That's pretty damn frequent.

In the UK, deaths due to misadventures with LPG (asphyxiation, explosions) exceed all other boating deaths except drowning, and I believe in some years exceeds even that.

LPG on a boat is a very bad idea. My next boat will have an all electric galley.

Sent from my D6633 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app