Jabsco Toilet Question

[astokel]

The toilet was new when I bought the boat seven years ago. It has worked fine since. Until now. Because of that, I know nothing about marine plumbing.

We went on a weekend cruise recently and I noticed that I could only pump the handle when the lake water valve was open. It continued to work but I was pumping a lot of water into the holding tank. In the morning, I observed that some of the content of the holding tank had come back into the toilet bowl. I pumped it out (again with a lot more lake water) and got a pump out.

The pump out helped but I still can't pump unless the water valve is open. My friend says it's the joker valve. Could that be the only problem?

[svHyLyte]

I presume by "Lake Water Valve" you are referring to an overboard discharge (which frankly I can't imagine in a Lake but that's another matter).

If your system will not allow you to discharge into the holding tank--which I assume is rigid--it is most likely due to a blocked vent line. If the vent is obstructed, pumping into the tank is akin to pressurizing a garden sprayer and most head pumps won't do that by much. A joker valve will normally prevent back flow, but, if you haven't maintained your system well, they will leak and allow back-flow in the head.

N'any case, check your vent. If you're located in an area where there are mud or paper wasps, head vent thru-hulls make an ideal location for them and, particularly mud wasps, can build very study "houses" that you'll have to break-up and wash out (BTDT!!!). If there are no exterior obstructions, the vent may be blocked by debris from the tank itself (if it were overfilled for example and then pressurized by efforts to inject more waste). In that case, you'll need to open the above deck discharge line (where you would pump the waste out) and try an in injection of water from a garden hose through the vent line. If the water "blows back" in that effort, you may need to combine the suction of a pump-out hose with the water injection method.

FWIW...

PS: You can test this theory by leaving the cap on your pump-out line open and seeing if you can pump into the holding tank. If so, its a vent problem as above. If not, you may have a build-up of debris obstructing the line from your Y-Valve to the holding tank (hopefully Not!).

[sck5]

Yes, by all means check the vent first. That is often the problem. However, if there is a problem with the pump itself, do yourself a favor and do NOT buy a pump rebuild kit. For only a few dollars more you can just buy the whole assembly and not have to deal with the whole messy inside of it. Trust me, when you are halfway through rebuilding it you will say to yourself "Yes. I would pay $20 not to be doing this right now"

Jabsco Twist 'n' Lock Pump Assembly

[sck5]

Another thing - as Hy Lyte mentioned, overboard discharge in lakes is a no-no. I assume from your location that you are sailing in Lake Ontario. I am in NY just across from you and the rules are the same (in fact, there is a treaty between Canada and the US that makes the rules identical wherever you are on the Great Lakes) Do not discharge overboard. If you get caught with an open discharge you can get a very big fine that could well be more than your boat is worth. Also, it is a good thing for all of us to just do what the rules say and keep the lakes as clean as they can be.

[peghall]

If the joker valve hasn't been replaced in 7 years, it's a wonder the toilet can still move the bowl contents out at all. But you have more than one problem.

It won't switch to the "dry" mode because the wet/dry mechanism in the pump has failed. The wet/dry "valve" is actually just a little "gate" (the cam) that the lever swings to block or unblock the flow of incoming flush water. It's staying stuck in the dry mode. Try jiggling the lever to free it up. However, that's only an emergency fix 'cuz it's something you'll prob'ly have to do every time the toilet is used and may or may not work this time but not time...

The average lifespan of a Jabsco manual toilet is a lot shorter than seven years, even when the toilet is maintained. With -0- maintenance, it's amazing that any toilet, much less a Jabsco, would still be working at all. The joker valve is a one way valve in the toilet discharge fitting...a cup shaped rubber cup with a slit in the bottom and "lips" on the outside. Over time, flushes passing through it stretch the slit further and further open...by now yours has to be a hole! It's allowing backflow into the bowl. But it's not coming from the tank unless the tank is full to overflowing 'cuz the inlet fitting on the tank is on the top of the tank and tank contents can't jump up into it. A blocked tank vent may have pressurized it, creating backpressure that isn't allowing flushes to get to the tank, but that would also cause the pumpout pump to pull a vacuum that prevent it pulling more than a gallon or two out. So while you may think you've pumped out, you need to make sure the tank really is empty...'cuz it would be a miracle if the vent isn't blocked in a system that's had -0- maintenance in 7 years.

In fact, it's a miracle that the toilet still works at all because in addition to the joker valve in the discharge fitting, there are rubber seals, o-rings and valves in the pump that wear out too. So at the very least, your toilet needs a service kit (replacements for all those things), but it also needs a new wet/dry cam assembly which isn't in the kit. All that would cost you more than a new pump for the toilet

So my advice: replace the pump and clean out your tank vent. I"ve posted instructions for doing that a number of times on this site. And learn how to maintain your system! You'll find a comprehensive "marine toilets and holding tanks 101" manual that will teach you everything you need to know at the link in my signature.

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

[peghall]

He's referring to the flush water inlet thru-hull!

[astokel]

Originally Posted by sck5

Another thing - as Hy Lyte mentioned, overboard discharge in lakes is a no-no. I assume from your location that you are sailing in Lake Ontario. I am in NY just across from you and the rules are the same (in fact, there is a treaty between Canada and the US that makes the rules identical wherever you are on the Great Lakes) Do not discharge overboard. If you get caught with an open discharge you can get a very big fine that could well be more than your boat is worth. Also, it is a good thing for all of us to just do what the rules say and keep the lakes as clean as they can be.

I was referring to where the fresh water for the bowl comes from. After the BM it is pumped into a holding tank. I think Canadian boats have been like that for more than 50 years.

[wiekeith]

Originally Posted by astokel

We went on a weekend cruise recently and I noticed that I could only pump the handle when the lake water valve was open.

If by 'lake water valve' you mean the valve on the through-hull supplying the water intake for the toilet, from the lake, then that is as I'd expect. With the valve shut the pump is unable to draw flushing water in, so it won't budge.

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by peghall

He's referring to the flush water inlet thru-hull!

A. How did you divine that?

B. If that's the case and he can't figure out what the problem is, he's got an even greater problem, No?

[peghall]

A. How did you divine that?

30 years of experience with inexperienced boat owners.

B. If that's the case and he can't figure out what the problem is, he's got an even greater problem, No?

None of us were born knowing how anything on a boat works. It's a learning curve that he's just starting to climb. comes easy to some people, harder for others. The important thing here is that he's trying to learn...some people don't see any need to.

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

[astokel]

Originally Posted by astokel

The toilet was new when I bought the boat seven years ago. It has worked fine since. Until now. Because of that, I know nothing about marine plumbing.

We went on a weekend cruise recently and I noticed that I could only pump the handle when the lake water valve was open. It continued to work but I was pumping a lot of water into the holding tank. In the morning, I observed that some of the content of the holding tank had come back into the toilet bowl. I pumped it out (again with a lot more lake water) and got a pump out.

The pump out helped but I still can't pump unless the water valve is open. My friend says it's the joker valve. Could that be the only problem?

Me again. I did jiggle the wet/dry switch and as sure as s**t, it worked (for a while).

I also checked the vent hose and it is clear so no problems there.

I can buy a new Jabsco from Amazon for about $CAN 200, so why should I spend hours making repairs when for about 10 hours work (I charge $20/hr), I can have a new head?

Thanks all!

A

[peghall]

I agree completely! Now you just need to learn how to maintain the system----holding tank as well as the toilet. The link in my signature goes to a comprehensive "marine toilets and holding tanks 101" manual that will teach you how to prevent 99% of problems instead of having to cure 'em...'cuz prevention is always cheaper and easier than cure.


Btw...you're close enough to the border for it make a lot of sense for you to get a US shipping address...inexpensive and easy to do at any Mailboxes Etc or similar location. That won't help with the rate of exchange, and you'd still have to declare anything you bring home, but it can save you quite a bit in "international" shipping charges and fees that UPS and other shippers charge for goods shipped from the US that not only cost you extra money but also add to prices Canadian retailers have to charge their customers. And you get what you order from US retailers a lot quicker.

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

[ValiantV]

Originally Posted by astokel

I can buy a new Jabsco from Amazon for about $CAN 200, so why should I spend hours making repairs when for about 10 hours work (I charge $20/hr), I can have a new head?

Thanks all!

A

You can buy the whole pump assembly for ~$85 on Amazon. (West Marine gets about $115 for the same thing)

4 easy-to-R&R stainless screws and two hoses. (Actually, if you take out 2 more screws holding the outlet elbow, you can avoid struggling with the outlet hose.)
Joker valve is included.

Replacing the whole head (IMHO) is a bigger job - and the bowl doesn't "wear" anyway. The pump assembly is where all the "guts" of the system are.

[peghall]

You can buy the whole pump assembly for ~$85 on Amazon.

At today's rate of exchange, that's $108 CDN...which also makes a good case for getting a US shipping address 'cuz if Amazon has to add international shipping + customs fees, their price would have to go up to close t $200CDN.

[windsweptms]

Junk the unit and purchase a Raritan super flush.