Isotherm CR165 Compressor Fridge

[rvlandlubber]

Excellentt!!, I'll log onto Ebay immediately

I happen to have a tube of neutral cure silicon too so I'll use it to fashion some support for the condenser.

Thanks for the job offer!! Refrigeration is too hard for me. My brain is still hurting!

Many thanks for your advice,

All the best,

Neal

[TassieBloke]

Hi all,

I am going to jump here with a very unqualified/observation question to Rvlandlubber.

The exhaust of the condenser air, is that able to vent directly outside (towards the right of the condenser) the cabinet that whole thing is housed in? It's difficult to see on my small screen.
If not, is it possible to make an opening the size of the condenser, which would dramatically change the airflow over the condenser which may alleviate some of the undercondensing capacity that Pete is talking about.

As for the rest of the build quality, it is questionable at best. The discharge line really needs to be modified if you want any sort of longevity of the copper tubing. There flex pipes available that could solve that problem. And if you are going to change that, then maybe even completely changing the horizontal orientation of the condenser to face towards cover that is currently removed could further assist.

You really need to see what the head pressure is doing with a set of gauges when its running. This will tell you a lot on both the low/high side...possible blockages etc etc.

Then I would find out from Isotherm what the refrigerant charge weight should be. If you are near someone who can recover the refrigerant for you, weigh the charge, then that will eliminate one vital variable. If it is undercharged significantly, then speeding up the compressor, or in higher ambient temps, even a larger condenser may not solve the problem.

If the refrigerant charge is correct, then the next step is trying to solve the airflow of the existing condenser, which if is unable to be modified in any way, then going to a larger condenser may be the only answer.

Just my 2c. Adjusted for Inflation. YMMV.

[rvlandlubber]

Hi TassieBloke,
Your input is much appreciated. I’m learning a lot from you guys.

The photos don’t show it but the walls of the fridge are actually condensers too. So I can’t make any holes.
From OzePetes posts, I may be able to get away with installing a digital Themostat. I plan to do that and re test to compare.
If it’s still not cooperating I’ll work through the recommendations from yourself and Ozepete.
I'm reasonably optimistic about this because I’ve tested the fridge up to ambient of 41C and it maintained the cabinet temp below 6C for an hour until the ambient started to reduce.
The build quality is a real pita. I’ll do the silicon support mod for the condenser and see how it goes. I’ve got 2 years warranty so hopefully if anything is going to break it will break during this time.
Cheers for now
Neal

[Richard Kollmann]

Neal I do not know where this unit came from but the information you have given confirms unit is low on refrigerant and it is not a condenser cooling or engineering problem. This unit may not be as pretty as another companies unit does not mean it is not functional and as reliable long term.

If you are the first owner of this unit Isotherm will replace it or cover cost to correct refrigerant low charge. If your earlier data logger tests show a deterioration in amperage then there is a small leak you may never find. Returning unit is your best option, if that can not be done add correct refrigerant till running amperage reaches 6 amps when box temperature is warm.

[OzePete]

Originally Posted by rvlandlubber

Excellentt!!, I'll log onto Ebay immediately

I happen to have a tube of neutral cure silicon too so I'll use it to fashion some support for the condenser.

Thanks for the job offer!! Refrigeration is too hard for me. My brain is still hurting!

Many thanks for your advice,

All the best,

Neal

Ha Ha Neal, so now you know what sent me around the bend! 56 years of it!

Cheers OzePete

[rvlandlubber]

Originally Posted by Richard Kollmann

Neal I do not know where this unit came from but the information you have given confirms unit is low on refrigerant and it is not a condenser cooling or engineering problem. This unit may not be as pretty as another companies unit does not mean it is not functional and as reliable long term.

If you are the first owner of this unit Isotherm will replace it or cover cost to correct refrigerant low charge. If your earlier data logger tests show a deterioration in amperage then there is a small leak you may never find. Returning unit is your best option, if that can not be done add correct refrigerant till running amperage reaches 6 amps when box temperature is warm.

Hi Richard,
I purchased this unit new from one of the Isotherm Webasto agents here in Perth. They are marine refrigeration and air-conditioning engineers.
As mentioned earlier, because of the problems I experienced with the previous fridge, I decided to test before installing.
With a background in SCADA, collecting the data was relatively straight forward but interpreting it is another matter.

I initially reached out to the technical department at Webasto in Australia with the same report I posted at the beginning of this thread.
I received a phone call from them, the jist of which was that the fridge is not tropically rated and there’s not a problem.
This seemed to me to be a fob off, so I asked if they had run it past their refrigeration guys, only to be told that they didn’t employ any.

Next I decided to contact the refrigeration engineers I purchased the unit from in the hope of a more informed evaluation of my testing. This is the response I received:

Neal,

In my opinion, its doing what it should be doing.
At a higher ambient it will behave slightly differently as the pressures in the system change and the compressor will have to run longer.
The only way to reduce the temperature fluctuation in the fridge would be to relocate the sensor into the fridge, which you cant do with this type of thermostat.

When I noticed the way the condenser was mounted, I decided to go to the source and contact Indel Webasto in Italy with my concerns:

Dear Sir,

I have recently purchased an Isotherm CR165 here in Australia, which will be installed in my RV.
On inspection, I have noticed that the condenser radiator assembly is not secured to the refrigerator chassis.
It is only held in place, 50mm above the chassis, by the copper piping at one end.

There are no supporting brackets for the assembly at the top or bottom and there is movement when pushed gently, especially at the opposite end to the pipes.

I am concerned about the longevity of this when installed in a mobile situation.
All the stresses of support are on the copper piping, which could cause fracturing when subjected to the shock and vibration encountered in a mobile application.

I have attached some photos.

Is there an engineering reason why the assembly has not been secured to the chassis?
Would you recommend the addition of some supporting brackets to mitigate the possibility of damage due to vibration?

Your advice would be greatly appreciated.

And the response:

Dear Neal
We produce this products since 2002,
We had never problem on condenser,
Unlike what you think, if you block the condenser the vibrations could discharge the force on pipes causing their break.
So we suggest you to leave the product how you have received it.


Richard, a few hours on this forum, where industry professionals such as yourself, Ozepete and TassieBloke actually take an interest and offer the benefit of their experience has been far more productive than any approaches so far to the manufacturer or their authorized reps.

I’m not confident that Isotherm will replace or test my unit as you say.
They have not even acknowledged yet there are any problems.

With regards to refrigerant charge, I see that you are all telling me to get it checked so I will.

My earlier tests all show very consistent current drain after the initial start-up peak seen in the graph. I’ve noted the figure of 6 amps you mention. I’ll redo the test when the box is warm and check for this.

Apologies for the long winded post.
Neal

[OzePete]

Originally Posted by rvlandlubber

Hi Richard,
I purchased this unit new from one of the Isotherm Webasto agents here in Perth. They are marine refrigeration and air-conditioning engineers.
As mentioned earlier, because of the problems I experienced with the previous fridge, I decided to test before installing.
With a background in SCADA, collecting the data was relatively straight forward but interpreting it is another matter.

I initially reached out to the technical department at Webasto in Australia with the same report I posted at the beginning of this thread.
I received a phone call from them, the jist of which was that the fridge is not tropically rated and there’s not a problem.
This seemed to me to be a fob off, so I asked if they had run it past their refrigeration guys, only to be told that they didn’t employ any.

Next I decided to contact the refrigeration engineers I purchased the unit from in the hope of a more informed evaluation of my testing. This is the response I received:

Neal,

In my opinion, its doing what it should be doing.
At a higher ambient it will behave slightly differently as the pressures in the system change and the compressor will have to run longer.
The only way to reduce the temperature fluctuation in the fridge would be to relocate the sensor into the fridge, which you cant do with this type of thermostat.

When I noticed the way the condenser was mounted, I decided to go to the source and contact Indel Webasto in Italy with my concerns:

Dear Sir,

I have recently purchased an Isotherm CR165 here in Australia, which will be installed in my RV.
On inspection, I have noticed that the condenser radiator assembly is not secured to the refrigerator chassis.
It is only held in place, 50mm above the chassis, by the copper piping at one end.

There are no supporting brackets for the assembly at the top or bottom and there is movement when pushed gently, especially at the opposite end to the pipes.

I am concerned about the longevity of this when installed in a mobile situation.
All the stresses of support are on the copper piping, which could cause fracturing when subjected to the shock and vibration encountered in a mobile application.

I have attached some photos.

Is there an engineering reason why the assembly has not been secured to the chassis?
Would you recommend the addition of some supporting brackets to mitigate the possibility of damage due to vibration?

Your advice would be greatly appreciated.

And the response:

Dear Neal
We produce this products since 2002,
We had never problem on condenser,
Unlike what you think, if you block the condenser the vibrations could discharge the force on pipes causing their break.
So we suggest you to leave the product how you have received it.


Richard, a few hours on this forum, where industry professionals such as yourself, Ozepete and TassieBloke actually take an interest and offer the benefit of their experience has been far more productive than any approaches so far to the manufacturer or their authorized reps.

I’m not confident that Isotherm will replace or test my unit as you say.
They have not even acknowledged yet there are any problems.

With regards to refrigerant charge, I see that you are all telling me to get it checked so I will.

My earlier tests all show very consistent current drain after the initial start-up peak seen in the graph. I’ve noted the figure of 6 amps you mention. I’ll redo the test when the box is warm and check for this.

Apologies for the long winded post.
Neal

Hi Neal, If that is there service it is disgusting.

Last night after considering your later comment describing the 'floating' condenser I was starting believe that Isotherm has had little to do with that terrible refrigeration equipment installation. I have seen many Isotherm products and while some are minimal and struggle in extreme conditions, I have never seen an Isotherm as badly equipped as this so I wonder if the following hypothetical is possible?

The fridge left Isotherm as a skin condenser, BD35 compressor refrigerator. This might be ok in cooler climates but it arrived in Australia and with a low capacity BD35 and only skin condenser, it would be hopeless. The ORIGINAL owner returns it and the dealer who then has some half baked refrigeration 'expert' upgrade it by adding the forced air condenser and a BD50 compressor. It has then been flogged off to you as a NEW fridge.

(But after reading your last post, maybe it is all Isotherms handy work!)

I would strongly recommend that you return it to the dealer, suggest he bend over while you.. well you know what to do, but get your refund cash first.

Cheers OzePete Ozefridge | 12 Volt Refrigeration Systems

[rvlandlubber]

Originally Posted by OzePete

I would strongly recommend that you return it to the dealer, suggest he bend over while you.. well you know what to do, but get your refund cash first.

Cheers OzePete Ozefridge | 12 Volt Refrigeration Systems

HAHA!! Your recommendation definitely appeals to me! Apart from getting my money back, I'll have to remember to take my beers out first. It'll be hard to open the door after I install it in the appropriate new location!!

[Richard Kollmann]

rvlandlubber, Pete and I have different objectives here, so I wish you luck in solving your refrigeration problem.

[OzePete]

Originally Posted by Richard Kollmann

rvlandlubber, Pete and I have different objectives here, so I wish you luck in solving your refrigeration problem.

My only objective here, as a refrigeration engineer, is to assist people with fridge problems and to counter any emphatic yet incorrect information that if left unchallenged would confuse at best or more likely
cause a user far more trouble than they were in originally.

I always try to offer a detailed yet uncomplicated explanation in such responses, as I did in responding to your incorrect statement regards testing supply voltage drop with a multi-meter, by also producing a video (link below) to prove that your statement was wrong ...

Video tests and Data record. | Ozefridge

Back to topic:
In this thread I expressed my concerns as to the very poor build of the cabinet / refrigeration depicted by Neal. You chose to post casting aspersions on me over that, and so now may I ask you Richard:
1: What is your objective in supporting a manufacturer who presents an item like this?
2: Do you believe it is a satisfactory build?
3: Do you support their service / warranty regime as experienced by Neal?

Look forward to your reply Richard.

Cheers OzePete Ozefridge | 12 Volt Refrigeration Systems

[Richard Kollmann]

The pleasure boat refrigeration industry is small and negative remarks can damage any company. One happy customer can sell three new products. One unhappy customer will lose you 13 new sales. I try to help all companies in this industry asking nothing in return. Do you really believe sending a person loaded with your negative observation to his units manufacture was helping him with his performance warranty claim? You do not seem to regret how your influence got his claim to be rejected. I have send people with problems to Isotherm who got a replacement unit before.

I have concerns about most of the products produced by this industry even yours. I may not recommend a product but I also will not get on a soap box and try to destroy it. Business with a business plan like yours generally fail, the best example of this was Glaser Bay refrigeration.

[OzePete]

Again Richard you totally avoid responding to the issues raised in my last post. But I will respond to yours in detail.

Originally Posted by Richard Kollmann

The pleasure boat refrigeration industry is small and negative remarks can damage any company. One happy customer can sell three new products. One unhappy customer will lose you 13 new sales.
Richard I suggest you check this thread (link below: Ozefridge Reviews) for postings from some of the many 'dissatisfied' Ozefridge clients!

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ws-136455.html

I try to help all companies in this industry asking nothing in return.
That’s good that you are standing up for “all companies” Richard but what about standing up for the member who has been ripped off?

Do you really believe sending a person loaded with your negative observation to his units manufacture was helping him with his performance warranty claim?
Absolutely, my interest is in helping the member get a fair go, not supporting the dealer trying to palm off sub standard equipment!

You do not seem to regret how your influence got his claim to be rejected.
Absolutely no regret, why should I regret trying to help someone? Your suggestion that I prevented his Warranty claim is absolute nonsense besides if that was the case it would be further condemnation of those involved. Under Australian law Neal will have no problem getting a full refund.

I have send people with problems to Isotherm who got a replacement unit before.
That’s very good Richard but if you care to read my posts in this thread, I raised the doubt that Isotherm had anything to do with this mess, suggesting that this may have been crude upgrading done by others after the original build.

I have concerns about most of the products produced by this industry even yours.
Well for one such producer I am not the slightest bit interested in your concerns, so please don’t trouble yourself over us!

I may not recommend a product but I also will not get on a soap box and try to destroy it.
Wow Richard that’s a bit rich (Get the pun!) Since I started disputing incorrect data you have posted (among mostly good stuff you post, I might add), you have constantly attacked my product/ company with innuendo and nonsense albeit avoiding having to respond to the actual topic discussing such incorrect information from you. Yet again you have done the same here even though you know absolutely nothing about our refrigeration products or company!

Business with a business plan like yours generally fail, the best example of this was Glaser Bay refrigeration.
Here you go again Rich, making commentary on something you know absolutely nothing about. I have run our various private family businesses/ companies very profitably since 1965, none have ever failed, gone broke or anything like that. Mostly refrigeration but we also involve cattle production and mining in central Australia, and have four properties in Cebu, two are agriculture growing coconuts and mango. So sorry to disappoint you Rich, but if I’m going to go broke as you suggest it better hurry up and happen soon! lol

Cheers OzePete Ozefridge | 12 Volt Refrigeration Systems

[Richard Kollmann]

Pete, I believe you ask me to respond in regard to your criticisms of Isotherm's CR165 refrigerator and how you helped resolved what sounded like a warranty problem. I am sorry but I tried to be as diplomatic in my answer as I could be. You have made your points clear so let the readers of forum decide for them selves.

As far as attacking your companies product I have no knowledge of your units and never seen any complaints regarding your products.

[Typhoon]

Originally Posted by OzePete

My only objective here, as a refrigeration engineer, is to assist people with fridge problems and to counter any emphatic yet incorrect information that if left unchallenged would confuse at best or more likely
cause a user far more trouble than they were in originally.

I always try to offer a detailed yet uncomplicated explanation in such responses, as I did in responding to your incorrect statement regards testing supply voltage drop with a multi-meter, by also producing a video (link below) to prove that your statement was wrong ...

Video tests and Data record. | Ozefridge

Back to topic:
In this thread I expressed my concerns as to the very poor build of the cabinet / refrigeration depicted by Neal. You chose to post casting aspersions on me over that, and so now may I ask you Richard:
1: What is your objective in supporting a manufacturer who presents an item like this?
2: Do you believe it is a satisfactory build?
3: Do you support their service / warranty regime as experienced by Neal?

Look forward to your reply Richard.

Cheers OzePete Ozefridge | 12 Volt Refrigeration Systems

Could you give me the model number on the controller you are testing Pete

Regards John.

[OzePete]

Originally Posted by ColdEh Marine

Could you give me the model number on the controller you are testing Pete

Regards John.

Sorry John, I missed seeing your post / request.
If you are referring to the video indicating how to check power supply voltage drop with a multi-meter when there are supply issues, then the Motor Driver Module was a 101N0500 operating on a Danfoss BD50.

If you are enquiring about the type / model number of the 'Soft Start' Motor Driver Module we use and are now testing on Danfoss / Secop and other compressors, sorry but we will not be releasing info on this until we are satisfied with its adaption. I will email info to you and Rich when we can. Enough to say at this stage they could be the answer, as all (we are trialling many) have withstood harsh testing without failure. Actually before release I will post one to you N/C for you to play with. Listening to the compressor start slowly through six stage start while never exceeding run current rate will be like music to your ears!!

Cheers,
OzePete www.ozefridge.com.au