How to de-install marine head for composting

[zachduckworth]

Well, my sooner or later marine head update has arrived sooner than planned. The build is at least 13 years old, pipes smell sort of dank, as does the Whale manual pump. I was debating between a full do-over and trying out a composting head. Boat is Islander Bahama 30, 1984. I’ve had her two years. Minor issues otherwise.

Yesterday while sailing across the beautiful Southern California waters something gave in the holding take and it dumped the black water i to the bilge. I haven’t been able to find exactly what failed yet. I pumped it overboard and it refilled partially, so now diapers are soaking it up… Gnarly!

I’ve already procured a Natures Head and I’m going to install it. My plan is to remove all the stinky old hoses, the stinky old pump, the old Jabco… basically everything but the tank which is glassed into the boat.

My question is: aside from removing things and plugging the through decks (plastic hand cocks in good visual condition, not original but professionally installed, seem very solid) what exactly do I need to do? In particular I’m wondering how to finish draining the holding tank all the way and sealing it off. Should I put treatment in it? Pump water through it until it’s running clear? Any and all advice appreciated!!

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by zachduckworth

Well, my sooner or later marine head update has arrived sooner than planned. The build is at least 13 years old, pipes smell sort of dank, as does the Whale manual pump. I was debating between a full do-over and trying out a composting head. Boat is Islander Bahama 30, 1984. I’ve had her two years. Minor issues otherwise.

Yesterday while sailing across the beautiful Southern California waters something gave in the holding take and it dumped the black water i to the bilge. I haven’t been able to find exactly what failed yet. I pumped it overboard and it refilled partially, so now diapers are soaking it up… Gnarly!

I’ve already procured a Natures Head and I’m going to install it. My plan is to remove all the stinky old hoses, the stinky old pump, the old Jabco… basically everything but the tank which is glassed into the boat.

My question is: aside from removing things and plugging the through decks (plastic hand cocks in good visual condition, not original but professionally installed, seem very solid) what exactly do I need to do? In particular I’m wondering how to finish draining the holding tank all the way and sealing it off. Should I put treatment in it? Pump water through it until it’s running clear? Any and all advice appreciated!!

I guess you need shelving to store all the poo and pee that normally goes into the holding tank? Assuming a no discharge zone of course but otherwise you wouldn’t use the holding tank either

[peghall]

Pump water through the tank until it's running clear, then cut the tank out and clean the bilge--really CLEAN it with plenty of detergent,water and a scrub brush or better yet, a power washer (they get into areas you can't reach even with a long handled brush). It leaks, so a future owner who decides he doesn't want a composting toilet wouldn't be able to use it...a good clean removal followed by "refurbishment" (odor elimination, sanding, painting etc) would be an improvement that would leave you with additional storage space. A future owner can install a new plastic tank if desired.


Yes...Yes, all that will require some manual labor, but worth it.

--Peggie

[Nekton73]

+1 to what Peg said. Cut out the old tank. If it failed and dumped into the bilge then I doubt you'll ever get the glassed in compartment it sits in 100% clean and stink free without removing it.



A sailor I know had to remove all their hoses and, rather than risk anything spilling while trying to pull them out, they squirted expanding foam into each end of the hoses, and let it dry before removing. Zero fuss or stress about spillage apparently.

[s/v Jedi]

For areas you can’t reach, enzymes are the only hope. So use enzyme based cleaners and give it plenty time to work, then pump out, rinse and repeat.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by Nekton73

+1 to what Peg said. Cut out the old tank. If it failed and dumped into the bilge then I doubt you'll ever get the glassed in compartment it sits in 100% clean and stink free without removing it.



A sailor I know had to remove all their hoses and, rather than risk anything spilling while trying to pull them out, they squirted expanding foam into each end of the hoses, and let it dry before removing. Zero fuss or stress about spillage apparently.

Expanding foam… very cool tip!

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by zachduckworth

Well, my sooner or later marine head update has arrived sooner than planned. The build is at least 13 years old, pipes smell sort of dank, as does the Whale manual pump. I was debating between a full do-over and trying out a composting head. Boat is Islander Bahama 30, 1984. I’ve had her two years. Minor issues otherwise.

Yesterday while sailing across the beautiful Southern California waters something gave in the holding take and it dumped the black water i to the bilge. I haven’t been able to find exactly what failed yet. I pumped it overboard and it refilled partially, so now diapers are soaking it up… Gnarly!

I’ve already procured a Natures Head and I’m going to install it. My plan is to remove all the stinky old hoses, the stinky old pump, the old Jabco… basically everything but the tank which is glassed into the boat.

My question is: aside from removing things and plugging the through decks (plastic hand cocks in good visual condition, not original but professionally installed, seem very solid) what exactly do I need to do? In particular I’m wondering how to finish draining the holding tank all the way and sealing it off. Should I put treatment in it? Pump water through it until it’s running clear? Any and all advice appreciated!!

For what it's worth, a similar experience led to me finally going with a compost head (Nature's Head). We've been full time cruising for 6 months from Ensenada south, now in Huatulco. About half time in marinas. Compost head is far from carefree, but definitely prefer it to the old head/holding tank system which I installed new 25 years ago. For part time users, I think the compost head makes even more sense.

[bergius]

When we removed ours, we first flushed it through with water as much as we could. When cutting the hoses, we'd immediately double plastic bag the hose ends and seal with duct tape.

With those we were able to get the whole stinky mess out of the boat without spills.

Certainly worth it! The locker space formerly occupied with the holding tank now contains coconut coir for maybe 6-8 months, plus a lot of our detergents and such.

When rebuilding the deck (had wet core), we also glassed the old pump out shut. The through hull is still in place. We've never had a long enough haul out to glass it.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

Expanding foam… very cool tip!

When I did the switch I carefully removed the hoses, and immediately inserted a bung. Removal of the old standard marine head, with all it's associated plumbing, is BY FAR, the worst part of converting.

I don't have any advice on the tank issue. I would do my utmost to remove it, but barring that, I'd follow the advice of previous posters to clean, clean, and clean. One of the great benefits of these composter heads is, used properly, the only odour should be a mild earthy smell ... like good quality potting soil. It would be a shame to go through all the conversion trouble, only to still be stuck with the smell of a standard marine head.

As Weebles said, these heads are not without their own challenges, but most users find that they pale in comparison to the issues associated older head designs.

[zachduckworth]

I was able to buy a Natures Head last night for about 50% new off craigslist. I noticed that the lip dividing the pee target and the solids target is very small given how important it is to keep urine out of the solids. My first impulse is to epoxy a larger barrier in there. Will epoxy stick to the plastic used on these contraptions? Thanks! Other I already love it, but probably because there are 12+ diapers in my bilge soaking up black water at the moment…

[dlj]

Originally Posted by zachduckworth

I was able to buy a Natures Head last night for about 50% new off craigslist. I noticed that the lip dividing the pee target and the solids target is very small given how important it is to keep urine out of the solids. My first impulse is to epoxy a larger barrier in there. Will epoxy stick to the plastic used on these contraptions? Thanks! Other I already love it, but probably because there are 12+ diapers in my bilge soaking up black water at the moment…

I don't have the Nature's Head, I have the OGO. I think the Nature's Head is similar in that any pee that doesn't directly go into the pee side is diverted into the pee side as lo g as the poo side is not open. You may wish to check with Nature's Head, but if that is also the case - don't worry about it....

dj

[Nekton73]

Yes that little plastic ridge does not inspire confidence, but when level, or heeled away from it there is no concern. Assuming you've mounted the head abeam that is. When heeled towards it I've definitely worried about it though. The flap that closes the solids side does overlap underneath and provide a secondary diversion in case that little dam is overwhelmed, but I've always been suspicious it might not catch every drop. So far though, no contamination issues as a result.

[Mike OReilly]

I initially had the same concern with my Nature's Head. I actually used 4200 to build up an additional ridge. This held for a few years, but eventually came off. I didn't replace it, and learned that there really is no issue with the way it is designed. There's enough of a slope to limit the backflow -- under normal heeling conditions.

Getting a small amount of urine into the main container is not a big deal. You just don't want a lot.

[NorthCoastJoe]

I have an Airhead and mounted it fore/aft in 3 boats now with no problems. The air venting was my only part where I had to really think about location. I have thought about using a small pump on the pee bottle to dump it over the side through an existing drain offshore.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by zachduckworth

......I noticed that the lip dividing the pee target and the solids target is very small given how important it is to keep urine out of the solids. My first impulse is to epoxy a larger barrier in there. Will epoxy stick to the plastic used on these contraptions?

Never even occured to me. When in a marina, we use the marina's bathroom for poo but use the Nature's Head for pee full time. Has not been an issue. I would not bother with a solution unless you have a problem.

It took us a couple weeks to get used to using the Nature's Head, especially me to sit while peeing. After a while its just a head. We've been in Mexico for 5-months nonstop and there is plenty to get used to even in land-based bathrooms (toilet paper goes in waste basket, not flushed - showers are low-pressure and rarely have hot water, etc.). Just part of the experience.