Holding tank refit legality

[peghall]

Note, I'm not sure how NDZ and such apply to the Great Lakes.

The entire Great Lakes became NDZ under a treaty with Canada in the 1960s, long before the CWA mandated marine sanitation regulations.

40 CFR 140.3 turned all non-navigable inland waters and intrastate lakes into NDZ as a result of the CWA in 1978

The EPA publishes a list of NDZs--which they keep updated--here
EPA NDZ list

Waters in which the discharge of TREATED waste is legal (and there are more of them US coastal waters on both coasts and the Gulf than you think) are NOT NDZ, they only make it illegal to discharge raw waste, which is illegal in all US waters both coastal and inland. You must be in open sea at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the entire US coast line or offshore island to discharge (defined as includes, but is not limited to, any spilling, leaking, pumping, pouring, emitting, emptying, or dumping) a tank or flush a toilet directly overboard.


--Peggie

[Gudgeon]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

For those who really like to dot all the tees and cross all the eyes, you might also log all times when you locked/unlocked/enabled/disabled and opened/closed the valve in question. Doesn't really mean much since logs are falsified all the time. But, it does show that you care.

Growley Monster can you provide a reference for this rule/regulation?

[MVDarlin]

Does anyone know if an electro scan Type 1 processor is acceptable treatment in a no discharge area?

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by MVDarlin

Does anyone know if an electro scan Type 1 processor is acceptable treatment in a no discharge area?

No. As I opined up thread, a "No Discharge Zone" is a misnomer. It is in reality an NLZ, or "No LectraSan Zone" (or Electro scan, or any other tweak they made on their name to differentiate models). The Clean Water Act prohibited all discharges of untreated waste in all waters of the US and the contiguous zone (so all inland waters, and coastal waters to 3 NM offshore). The only discharge allowed was a Type I (ie, a LectraSan). The CWA also allowed for designation of areas as a NDZ, where even the Type I is prohibited.
So, in simple words, in US waters there are two types of areas:
* Most areas, where holding tanks are required to be used, unless you have a LectraSan.
* NDZ, where holding tanks are required to be used. (period, no exceptions).

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Gudgeon

Growley Monster can you provide a reference for this rule/regulation?

I don't believe there is one and I did not say that there is one, for recreational vessels. Just prudently covering your hiney with documentation. Nobody is going to make you do it or hit you with a big fine for not doing it, and you don't have to do it. It just so happens that I do it. On ships, you log the darndest things, and even though I am retired, old habits die hard. I do think it is a good idea if you really want to look like you take an interest in doing the right thing.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

On ships, you log the darndest things, and even though I am retired, old habits die hard. I do think it is a good idea if you really want to look like you take an interest in doing the right thing.

You make an excellent point.
I had my hand-held horn fail in the fog.
Noted the failure in the log.
3>4 hours later, (after getting in the harbor,) the CG boarded for a "safety inspection".
Asked about not having a functioning horn, I showed them the log entry.
They did not cite me.

[Ike]

Back when I was working in the Coast Guard Office of Boating Safety, we got this question a lot. The simple answer is, any means to prevent the accidental discharge of sewage is acceptable. We even allowed for one boat manufacturer the use of two switches that had to be pressed simultaneously to operate the pump as a means of securing the system. So, locking, wire ties, removing the handle, are all acceptable means of preventing accidental discharge.
Deliberate discharge is illegal.

As for the OP. He is in Puget Sound, so all this talk about the 3 mile limit is irrelevant. He would have to sail over 150 miles just to get to the Coast. Same reasoning applies to the Chesapeake and LI sound. All of those bodies of water are contained within the boundaries of the United States.

Also, Peggy is the expert on this. I have relied on her expertise for over 20 years. Listen to her.

[Bill Seal]

To put things into perspective...

The San Antonio de los Buenos treatment plant near Tijuana discharges about 35 million gallons a day of raw sewage into the Pacific Ocean, according to estimates from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. That discharge frequently floats up the coast, shuttering beaches even during summer months.

[OS2Dude]

You need to check with the authorities (Coast Guard, DNR, etc.) governing the area you sail in for the requirements for discharging black water.

Most open water areas let you discharge once 3 miles offshore. Some areas are a No Discharge Zones and you can NEVER discharge there. If in a NDZ, again check with the authorities on the requirements.

We sail on a reservoir, and it is a strict NDZ. The ability to discharge overboard must be permanently disabled. (Not just locked out, be made impossible.) Most people accomplish this by removing the Y valve to the direct discharge thru hull before the tank and the Y that allows macerated discharge after the tank. I removed the direct discharge thru hull at our last refit, it was just a potential source of a leak. The macerator discharge was converted to be used by our marine Air Conditioner as the raw water inlet.

[Ike]

Early on in this thread the OP said he was in Puget Sound. Puget Sound and the Salish Sea (the areas north of Puget Sound on the border with Canada) are No Discharge Zones.

[gulfislandfred]

it's a bit of a grey area, but in the BC Salish Sea, most people interpret the Canadian regulation as no discharge of raw sewage within 2 miles of shore. In practice we wait until we're in the middle of whatever channel we're in, and pump out through a macerator.
We don't have many pump out stations in BC. One could argue that once you're North of Vancouver, we don't need them, except in crowded areas like Desolation Sound.

More and more people in BC (and elsewhere) have switched to composting toilets. No discharge, and if you separate liquids, you can hold a month or so of solids in a couple of containers with tight lids.

Washington State did a brilliant thing when they started to require holding tanks: They paid for a pump out station at pretty much every gas dock and marina. After that, it was up to the operators to maintain and replace the pump outs. That one time investment by the State created a culture of using pump outs, and an expectation that they would be available.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Bill Seal

To put things into perspective...

The San Antonio de los Buenos treatment plant near Tijuana discharges about 35 million gallons a day of raw sewage into the Pacific Ocean, according to estimates from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. That discharge frequently floats up the coast, shuttering beaches even during summer months.

Indeed.
“Modeling Untreated Wastewater Evolution and Swimmer Illness for Four Wastewater Infrastructure Scenarios in the San Diego-Tijuana (US/MX) Border Region” ~ by Falk Feddersen et al

For the study, the research team estimated that, under current conditions [2017], 3.8 percent of all yearly ocean swimmers at Imperial Beach would become sick, from bathing in sewage contaminated waters.
The estimate jumps to 4.5 percent during the summer.
Addressing the San Antonio de los Buenos treatment plant [SAB] flows, reduces the percentage of summertime ill swimmers, dramatically, to 0.5 percent.

Here ➥ https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley....9/2021GH000490

But, from another perspective:

A logical fallacy is a misleading argument, that might sound true, and may even be based on truth, but is in fact false, or misleading.
The 'fallacy of relative privation' rejects an argument, by stating the existence of a more important problem. This fallacy is also known as the 'appeal to worse problems' or “not as bad as”.
Boat sewerage doesn’t matter, because municipal sewerage is a much greater problem.

[massnspace]

This is what I don’t like about this forum…..a simple question about holding tank configuration somehow veers into a discussion on Mexican sewage discharge protocols.

Anyway, thanks to those who actually helped with my actual question……..