Cleaning out anti freeze from the lines in the spring

[Cheechako]

I bought an east coast boat that had been winterized each year. I never could drink water out of the tanks.
Boy Peggy, one quarter cup of bleach per gallon is a very high dose. Not sure I could ever drink out of that tank either. Does the bleach chemically counter effect the anti freeze or something? Trying to figure what bleach treatment has to do with anti freeze?

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I bought an east coast boat that had been winterized each year. I never could drink water out of the tanks.
Boy Peggy, one cup of bleach per gallon is a very high dose. Not sure I could ever drink out of that tank either. Does the bleach chemically counter effect the anti freeze or something? Trying to figure what bleach treatment has to do with anti freeze?

Re-read her instructions. She suggested 20x less than that. Yes, it is pretty strong, but it's only a brief treatment.

"1. Prepare a chlorine solution using one gallon of water and 1/4 cup (2 oz or 25 ml) Clorox or Purex household bleach (5% sodium hypochlorite solution ). With tank empty, pour chlorine solution into tank. Use one gallon of solution for each 5 gallons of tank capacity. (Those are the “official” directions. They work out to 1 quart or liter of bleach/50 gallons of water tank capacity, which is MUCH easier to calculate!)"

The bleach will kill the microorganism and remove the off taste. The glycol AF itself has very little taste, and none once washed out and diluted. The smell and taste come from fermentation products, like wine gone bad.

I suspect the boat was winterized wrong and the water system poorly maintained. I never had that problem. But it does require attention to detail. Too many water system are ignored; perhaps we expect the same elves that maintain city pipes and water to come onto our boat.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Re-read her instructions. You have it mixed up.

I suspect the boat was winterized wrong and the water system poorly maintained. I never had that problem. But it does require attention to detail. Too many water system are ignored; perhaps we expect the same elves that maintain city pipes and water to come onto our boat.

Yeah, I lost the word "quarter". I just changed that. Still, a quart of bleach per 50 gallons is a ton!

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

What is the best practice for getting the anti freeze out of the lines. I have 2 40 gallon tanks that go into a manifold.

So what is the best way to have clean non anti freeze tasking water?

Not meant to sound like a flippant response: Don't put anti-freeze into the lines in the first place.

Drain the tanks, then blow out the lines with an air compressor.

If you absolutely must, for some reason... drain the tanks, disconnect the tanks from before the fresh water pump, bypass your water heater, and then run AF through the pump to all the faucets. When it comes time to recommission, connect a fresh water supply just before the pump and let it run until lines are clear. Flush with Peggie's recommended diluted bleach solution while you're at it, then rinse again again until you can detect no taste or odor.

If your two tanks are filled from a single inlet on deck, there's probably a crossover leveling line; that could be a decent place to install a drain valve.

For the water heater, it helps to install a permanent valve-controlled bypass system, so all you have to do is to flip a couple valve handles...

-Chris

[ggray]

How large a compressor is needed? I tried it one year, and had no confidence all the water was removed.
Figured my compressor was too small.

[sailah]

I have a monster compressor in my shop, 80gal, but you could do the same with pancake compressor if you did multiple applications. You don't need every last drop out the plastic lines have some stretch unlike the copper in your house.

[Cool Hand Luke]

Originally Posted by Suijin

I winterize with cheap vodka. Recommissioning consists of a lot of Bloody Mary’s and some invited friends. I’m not joking. Vodka is cheaper than domestic water antifreeze and in my experience works just as well. And it’s a hell of s brunch too

I am seriously considering this for next Winter. Does vodka really do the trick? I mean, I keep Grey Goose in my freezer at home and it never freeezes.

Does it really work? Does it damage any of the pipes/tubes/tanks/pumps?

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

4 handles is little short of 2 gallons. A gallon of the pink stuff costs $3. The cheapest vodka around me goes for about $9 a handle. That is $18 a gallon vs. 3. Even during the fall when west marine charges $5 for antifreeze, that is 18 vs. 5. And the freeze point of anti freeze is much lower. Granted in the mid atlantic you might not worry about a super low freeze point.

OTH, the price difference might be worth not having the crappy taste I am trying to get rid of all season. So spending $100 on vodka just might be worth it!

The taste has NOTHING to do with the AF agent, only whether it is strong enough to prevent fermentation. Neither has any significant taste after a light rinse.

Since fermentation stops somewhere around 25%, that is where you need to be (diluted vodka can get quite nasty--it is only non-perishable at full strength).

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by ggray

How large a compressor is needed? I tried it one year, and had no confidence all the water was removed.
Figured my compressor was too small.

I dunno exactly, but our dockwater pressure regulator is 45 psi, and I usually use that as the inlet for our compressor... usually set at about 40 psi.

-Chris

[jbinbi]

Originally Posted by thinwater

The taste has NOTHING to do with the AF agent, only whether it is strong enough to prevent fermentation. Neither has any significant taste after a light rinse.

Since fermentation stops somewhere around 25%, that is where you need to be (diluted vodka can get quite nasty--it is only non-perishable at full strength).

Not sure if you are saying that you can use vodka at 3:1 water:vodka?

If so, maybe where you live, but I think 80 proof vodka has a freeze point of about-10F. In New England, that has no margin of error. And I am in the warmer part of NE. If you are in ME where temps gets another 10 below that....So no chance of diluting that.

So it's either get all the water out absolutely, or run an AF with a freeze point down to -30-. I can't blow the water out of my tanks easily, AF is my only option, hence my thread to get the crappy taste out of the lines

[chris mac]

Originally Posted by ggray

How large a compressor is needed? I tried it one year, and had no confidence all the water was removed.
Figured my compressor was too small.

I always winterize my holiday trailer this way. Our winters regularly Hit -30, sometimes -40. I only use my portable compressor since it can run off the generator.
You really don't want too much pressure, so as not to damage the lines. I usually set at around 30 psi and only have one tap open at a time.
After water stops coming out of each tap I add a couple tablespoons of AF and blow it through the line. That way if there is any water left, it's strongly mixed. Then open the next tap before closing the previous.(so pressure doesn't build) After you are done, open all taps so any water that might be left can expand if it does freeze.
Since no AF is in the tank, it takes very little to flush the taste out in the spring.

[SeaSon]

You don't need much pressure or vacuum to pull the water out of your lines. A shop vac will do it. You can suck or pressurize air and water EZ.

Never pour AF into your tank. If you choose to go with AF vs draining, then draw it from the bottle using a hose on your FW pump.

[thinwater]

a. Vodka is 45% ethanol. To reach 30% (prevent bursting in very cold conditions AND prevent fermentation/yucky pipes) you need about 2 parts vodka to one part water. To allow for residual water in the pipes, you basically need straight vodka. People get away with less, and sometimes it ferments and sometimes things burst. Sometimes people don't winterize and get away with it. The preferred winterization fluid is propylene glycol, and ethanol in any guise is a stingy option that might bite you immediately and will do slow damage.

b. The freeze point and the burst point are different. Water freezes at 32F. However, antifreeze mixtures start to slush around 0F, but don't freeze solid enough to cause damage until much colder. The burst point is not well defined (no ASTM or ANSI standard test) and depends on the pipe material (PVC bursts before copper, and PE and rubber won't burst). Steel is quite strong, but cast iron bursts easily.

A few more tips that might help.



http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...reeze-and.html

https://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/The-Cold-Case-of-the-Frozen-Antifreeze-11331-1.html

https://www.practical-sailor.com/iss...g_11546-1.html

[ggray]

I used a low pressure, maybe too low.

I just figured there wasn't enough air volume. Of course there will be a relationship between pressure and volume; I just don't want to over do it.

[billpeerson]

As a retired chef, I buy 30% hydrogen peroxide, dituted to about 10 % allow 1 hr in system, pump through faucets. No chemical taste, kill the best of bugs, cheap, and safe. Good for cleaning galley surfaces as well.