Cabin heating for cooler climes?

[Auspicious]

I've sailed with a lot of different sorts of heat on deliveries. I've owned Webasto and Espar forced air diesel.

Solid fuel bulkhead heaters chew up too much space for fuel and leave stains on the sails. Slow to adjust temp. Time intensive. Very pretty.

Drip heaters mean keeping a day tank full. Starting them usually means another more volatile fuel. A little less soot than solid fuel but harder to clean what does build up. Again, slow to adjust. Slow to heat the boat.

Forced air diesel is fastest to heat the boat. Some care and feeding issues shared with hydronic diesel. Otherwise simply brilliant. Cared for they just run and run and run. Some power consumption.

Hydronic diesel is slower to heat the boat. You get the benefit of domestic hot water heating "free" and plumbed properly can use engine heat to heat the boat. Lots of power consumption.

Care and feeding of diesel heaters has two elements. The first is fuel. Impurities in the fuel build up carbon in the combustion chamber which leads to expensive service calls. Based on a recommendation to me and my success with it, I suggest putting in a small (1 USG) tank with a Y-valve in the fuel line to the main diesel tank. A couple of times per heating season run a gallon of kerosene through the heater. Better combustion keeps the carbon build-up at bay. The second issue is steady state heating. This is a liveaboard problem. The heater gets the boat warm and the fan throttles back. The fan pushes both combustion air and domestic air (see the exploded diagram in a manual). Combustion inefficiency leads to carbon build up (again). The solution is simple - turn the heat down regularly so that when you turn it back up the fan runs on high for a while to catch up. My practice is to turn the heater off completely while I'm making dinner. I'm an early to bed guy so if I get chilly I go to bed. When I get up to pee in the middle of the night I turn the heat back on.

You should have an outlet in the head. Position it so that warm air blows on the toilet seat. This should be obvious.

My recommendation is to fit an Espar (I like them a bit better than Webasto) and live with it a season before you start ripping out seating and drilling holes in your deck.

Pay attention to the fuel pickup tubes in your fuel tank. In my opinion, generator and heater pickups should be higher in the tank than main engine, so you don't immobilize yourself.

[daga]

I installed a Webasto in Hobart. It worked and got me thru one winter there. It's been unused for three years while in the tropics. I am now in South Africa and this winter I tried to start it but no go. Sent a message to Webasto with the error code but no reply. Sent another message and more of the same. No local Webasto dealer/support.

[sailorxyz]

I had a Refleks for 13 years on my last boat. It kept the boat warm and I had no issues whats so ever once I learned to light it.

I have installed a Dickinson Adriatic in the current boat. It provides heat, cooking and hot water. It also has a decent oven, which is great for bread making. I am well pleased with it.

[starminx]

Originally Posted by Methersgate

Grateful for advice.

I had 39 years with a wooden (teak) gaff cutter with two successive Shipmate solid fuel stoves. But the ability to carry enough fuel for long spells may persuade me towards a diesel, this time.

First, the boat.

Here she is; a GRP offshore racer from the 1970s.



(Yes, the topsides do get polished from time to time)



Down below she looks like this:



She had an Eberspacher, and since the ducting etc. for it is still there it may as well go back in. But since these things do sometimes break down I want a conventional stove, with flue, also.

There are two obvious places to put a Dickinson, a Refleks, or whatever. By abolishing the bench seat on the bulkhead at the fore end of the cabin table we can put one there, or by abolishing the locker at the forward end of the port settee we can put one there.

A quite important point is that both these locations are adjacent to the mast, and I would want a balanced flue.

Advice welcomed…

Hello sailor
A very nice boat, beautiful lines!
I am a live aboard since more then 12 years on a wooden Alfred Mylnes 1953. Use d to have a the Dickinson and Refleks heater on board but gave me no satisfaction at all.

Being technical and practical I started making changes and than realized I had created a new diesel heater. Total combustion, no soot, no cleaning, no smell, no electrics and very easy to operate. Due to the total combustion a very low consumption.

I wish to share my results with other sailors , particular the ones living on board and traveling to northern territories. See S/Y "Qilak".
It is my desire to support, guide, explain and possibly do a start-up with you via a video call. A new happy satisfied user is my main goal ! For additional info please look up arcticblueflamme diesel heater.

[sailorxyz]

Originally Posted by starminx

I wish to share my results with other sailors , particular the ones living on board and traveling to northern territories. See S/Y "Qilak".
It is my desire to support, guide, explain and possibly do a start-up with you via a video call. A new happy satisfied user is my main goal ! For additional info please look up arcticblueflamme diesel heater.

I'm interested but being totally deaf video calls don't work for me. I've got a Dickinson Adriatic, I don't really want to replace it but would rather try improve it or just replace the burner... Would you be willing to help?

[starminx]

Originally Posted by sailorxyz

I'm interested but being totally deaf video calls don't work for me. I've got a Dickinson Adriatic, I don't really want to replace it but would rather try improve it or just replace the burner... Would you be willing to help?

Hej, Yes no problem.
Believe to have helped to drastically improve combustion in a Dickinson heater like yours on someones boat who spent last winter in the north pole ice.


If You can send me a hand drawn sketch of your burner with dimensions, as many as possible, and of the super heater, catalyzer, I might be able to suggest you either a catalyzer replacement or a complete burner replacement. The burner replacement might require some modification in order to fit your combustion chamber. Therefore I need your dissensions. Please also send me some pictures of your installed burner, inside, top, bottom and whatever you think valuable in order for me to formulate a valuable proposal.
Have you visited the arcticblueflamme site ?

[Bowdrie]

I have been living aboard full time for 28 years, and the Dickinson Pacific stove has run 24/7 for ~7>8 months a year for ~25 of those years.
I think that I have had a reasonable "learning curve", and operational experience with the Dickinson.
In the older days, before diesel fuel was loaded-up with Bio, the stove worked flawlessly,, not a chemist, but maybe the sulpher content helped with the burn also?
With todays fuel the shortcomings of the stock superheater became very apparent.
The secret to clean burning/no soot/no smell, is efficient superheating of the fuel, total vaporization of the fuel must be accomplished for clean/efficient operation.
Dickinson offers extra part(s) to install in the burner to help overcome the shortcomings of the burner with high-bio fuel, but they still are lacking.
I've ended up making my own superheaters, and after ~3>4 iterations now have one that operates without any issues and without resorting to forced draft.
Having a warm/dry boat in inclement weather is not something for debate, it's a basic requirement for civilized living,, to be obtained however possible, by whatever scenario you can come up with to fit your requirements.

[starminx]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

I have been living aboard full time for 28 years, and the Dickinson Pacific stove has run 24/7 for ~7>8 months a year for ~25 of those years.
I think that I have had a reasonable "learning curve", and operational experience with the Dickinson.
In the older days, before diesel fuel was loaded-up with Bio, the stove worked flawlessly,, not a chemist, but maybe the sulpher content helped with the burn also?
With todays fuel the shortcomings of the stock superheater became very apparent.
The secret to clean burning/no soot/no smell, is efficient superheating of the fuel, total vaporization of the fuel must be accomplished for clean/efficient operation.
Dickinson offers extra part(s) to install in the burner to help overcome the shortcomings of the burner with high-bio fuel, but they still are lacking.
I've ended up making my own superheaters, and after ~3>4 iterations now have one that operates without any issues and without resorting to forced draft.
Having a warm/dry boat in inclement weather is not something for debate, it's a basic requirement for civilized living,, to be obtained however possible, by whatever scenario you can come up with to fit your requirements.

Hej,
I couldn't agree more with your remarks re the superheater and the vaporization of the fuel. The superheater In my Dickinson (2009) looked very very similar to the Dickinson spare parts of today.

[Oeanda]

Great thread. We’ve been through forced air diesel (good but then it broke), propane (ok but who wants to buy propane all the time), wall-mount Dickinson solid fuel (way too small), Jotul wood stove (cozy but messy). Now a Dickinson Pacific, on top of various electric heaters and dehumidifiers when on shore power of course.
I’d love to know how you folks tuned up the Pacific. We are close to giving up on fiddling with ours- guzzles diesel to make soot, for little heat in return.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Oeanda

I’d love to know how you folks tuned up the Pacific. We are close to giving up on fiddling with ours- guzzles diesel to make soot, for little heat in return.

Your not alone, the internet is, and has been replete with dissatisfied operators trying to get a Dickinson to burn properly with the newer formulations of diesel.
I'll try to explain; The stove I have is an older model that used what was called an "R" burner, in which their was a central tube that was screwed into a fitting that was welded at the bottom of the burner pot,, that fitting had female pipe threads.
A small "tripod" shaped superheater device slipped over the tube, and the heat in the burner pot transferred into that vertical tube and would vaporize the fuel.
The rising vapor would exit the tube, and then be directed back down into the bottom of the burner pot with a second tube where it would combust.
I know,, clear as mud, right,,?
Anyway, you probably have the newer model, so I'll focus on that.
The new style burner pot does not have any threads at the bottom, nor any threaded-in vertical tube, the fuel feeds directly into the bottom of the pot, where it would form in a little pool.
The new superheater is this device with vertical fins, and a couple of rings,
and the bottom ring makes contact with the bottom of the pot.
The theory of operation is that the rising heat is captured by the vertical fins, then that heat is transferred to the bottom ring and the bottom of the pot, that heat is supposed to "boil off" the fuel, turning it into a vapor/gas that then ignites.
Dickinson does say that the superheater must have good metal-to-metal contact to work properly,, and if it does, it will work ok, that is, until the new formulations of diesel came along.
Here's the deal, the older, non-bio diesel fuel will vaporize easily in the Dickinson, the fuel with bio content is like trying to vaporize corn oil or butter,, high draft fan, high fuel setting,, and low heat with soot.
The answer that Dickinson came up with is a little tripod shaped decice that sits on top of the soot ring,, it's supposed to re-direct heat back down into the burner pot, to add heat to the fins for transfer into the pool of fuel.
And, it does work,, after a fashion.
Ok, here's where I critique the Dickinson burner assembly,, not for design, but rather in choice of materials, and this is the crux of the matter;
The superheater is made out of Stainless steel.
Stainless steel has very poor heat transfer abilities,, adding the little "deflector" at the top is just a band-aid, and doesn't address the issue of getting enough heat where it's needed.
The superheater needs to be made of heavy gauge brass/copper, something that will REALLY transfer heat,, you must BOIL the fuel off.
With repeated hot/cold/start/stop cycles, copper, unless it's very heavy, will end up becoming "over annealed", and gets weak/easily deformed/bent.
Brass is not as good as copper for heat transmission, but will maintain its physical strength better.
Another issue is that a superheater made from brass/copper cannot be simply and cheaply spot-welded,, it needs to be a good Tig-welded unit, and that adds a lot of cost, both for the base metal, and the fabrication/welding.
So,, that's kind of the bottom line.
I'm still "fiddling around" with better designs, and a friend, (who is a pro welder, and a Dickinson owner,) is working with me.
The goal; To make a "Super" superheater.
Sorry for such a long winded post,,.

[Oeanda]

Thanks so much Bowdrie! That wonderful post gives me a wealth of info to consider when I get to seriously dissecting this stove.

On a five week trip this summer, where we froze, remained constantly wet, and turned our sails and decks black, we often wondered why we had removed the wood stove, as we wandered endless beaches covered in driftwood...

On the bright side, it made us run nearly empty of fuel, which forced us to stop and smell the roses and wait for fair winds a lot, and made us better sailors. So there is that.

[sailorxyz]

Originally Posted by starminx

Hej, Yes no problem.
Believe to have helped to drastically improve combustion in a Dickinson heater like yours on someones boat who spent last winter in the north pole ice.


If You can send me a hand drawn sketch of your burner with dimensions, as many as possible, and of the super heater, catalyzer, I might be able to suggest you either a catalyzer replacement or a complete burner replacement. The burner replacement might require some modification in order to fit your combustion chamber. Therefore I need your dissensions. Please also send me some pictures of your installed burner, inside, top, bottom and whatever you think valuable in order for me to formulate a valuable proposal.
Have you visited the arcticblueflamme site ?

Hi yes, have visited your website and studied the manual. Shall I send you the needed info via your website Contact page?

[sailorxyz]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

Your not alone, the internet is, and has been replete with dissatisfied operators trying to get a Dickinson to burn properly with the newer formulations of diesel.
........
So,, that's kind of the bottom line.
I'm still "fiddling around" with better designs, and a friend, (who is a pro welder, and a Dickinson owner,) is working with me.
The goal; To make a "Super" superheater.
Sorry for such a long winded post,,.

Thank you for that super informative post, I'm experiencing the same issues. Here in New Zealand the diesel is ultra low sulfur stuff. I have a newly installed Dickinson Adriatic from day one it has sooted up.



I finally achieved better results by changing the carburetor to one calibrated for kerosene (after I noticed that the viscosity was about the same as kerosene) and installing the extra super heater. The problem is not fixed but it is very much better.


I also found that I get a clean burn and blue flame if I leave the fan on at the lowest setting. You are not supposed to do that but that has worked best so far.


Now reading your post, I wonder if making a tube from SS mesh like the Refleks has would help? I had a Refleks in my last boat and it did not soot up anywhere near as much as the Dickinson can and it did not have a fan.