Value of a USCG Captain's License?

[sailon46]

Having the 100 ton license with the sail endorsement for over 15 years now has given me to self assurance I needed to single hand the whole Carib sea and never have a serious problem that would endanger my crew or myself. It depends what class you attend and the instructor. The USCG ticket is a proof that you belong at sea to everyone that sails with you. I would have a hard time finding crew when I need it, i.e for long crossings, etc.
Anyway out there I trust God, my boat, NOAA, my Garmin and myself.
Ernie on the Mary Jane in St Croix for now

[denverd0n]

I have said it before, and I will say it again...

I hear all the time about how you will be held to a higher standard in court if you have a captain's license. I have yet to see any proof of that. If someone has a link to a court case where a captain was not operating as a paid captain, but just as a recreational boater, and was specifically held to a higher standard because of his license, I would be very interested to see that.

When I have asked this before all I ever get are links to some blog where someone claims that it happens, or that they have heard of it happening, or that their brother's second-cousin knows someone that it happened to. Or I get pointed to cases where the captain was operating under the authority of his license -- that is, being paid to be a captain. Or I get the response that it "just makes sense."

Seriously. Almost all court proceedings these days are published on the internet. If there is a single one out there where someone with a license was held to a higher standard, even though they were not operating as a paid captain at the time, I have not been able to find it. And I have looked. So, if you have such a reference, please post it.

[CSY Man]

I have a 100 ton ticket and never regretted getting it.
The course forced me to learn stuff I would be too lazy to do on my own.
Also made quite a few $$ on chartering my boat, work as a Captain on other boats, and
Insurance discounts.
I see no negatives and being held to a higher standard is just fine, if true.
Been licensed 20 years plus and it has never been an issue or a problem. In fact I want to be held to a higher standard and do my best to avoid any conflicts or incidents. No idea why some folks wants to be held to a lower standard?
Nobody has called me Captain yet, not an issue.
If somebody asked to be called Captain because of a piece of paper I would probably puke.

[Mrfish]

Originally Posted by CaptRory

Your friends may up front pitch in for a passage vacation with is technically illegal without a license. .

Are you saying that if I plan a charter in the Caribbean or the Med that I can't have my friends pitch in for the price of the charter because I am not a licensed Captain?

[BandB]

Wifey B: We both have our licenses. They don't get you any insurance discounts that years of experience won't also get you without them. They do get you respect in some areas and especially as a female, more than you'd get without.

Why did we do it? We wanted to be as good as we can be, learn as much as possible. We got trained on the water by captains. But we know we've benefited from the classroom training too. We spend 260 or so days a year boating so it's a big part of our lives. We've covered over 75,000 nm since 2012. We've not used much of what we learned in our MEDPIC courses (Medical Person in Charge). We hope we never do, but there's a relief when you're crossing a large area in knowing you do have some knowledge. Spending time on the floor in an ER was challenging and my hubby wasn't sure he'd be able to handle the blood and guts and gory. But he found out what I already knew that he was far more capable than he knew. I know if I had some serious issue at sea, that there's a good chance he can handle it. Fire fighting is another we hope we never have to use, but it sure was enlightening and educational. We've learned something in every course we've taken. Proficiency in survival craft is eye opening. It's all a level of proficiency. In our case we couldn't suddenly have 25 years of ocean experience but we could build knowledge and skills.

Now, the negative. It's expensive. It got more expensive with STCW requirements for internationally valid licenses, especially above 200 tons. However, just going for 100 Ton isn't so bad. I'm a former teacher so I had fun being a student.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Mrfish

Are you saying that if I plan a charter in the Caribbean or the Med that I can't have my friends pitch in for the price of the charter because I am not a licensed Captain?

It depends. If it is a bunch of friends who get together to arrange a joint charter, certainly you can share costs. If it is on your boat, they can still share costs, but you have to pay your share also. This must all be on a voluntary basis.

What you absolutely cannot do is anything that looks like charging them a fee, for taking them out on the water.

[captmikem]

It is actually very expensive to keep up.

Every five years you have to pay $300 to $500 to renew your Radar Cert.

Always something new when you renew, for instance one year I paid $2400 for ECDIS

Last time when I renewed I also had to pay $1200 for HELM (Human Leadership and Management)

Couple of time before that it was around $1000 for Security Officer training.
Plus the time it takes to arrange and take the classes

And you have to renew your TWIC card.

I can not imagine anyone spending the time and money to get a license if they are not going to use it.

For smaller licenses (500 ton or less) it may be less, but even then you need Radar and ECDIS or they limit you to 300Ton.

M

[BandB]

Originally Posted by sailon46

Having the 100 ton license with the sail endorsement for over 15 years now has given me to self assurance I needed to single hand the whole Carib sea and never have a serious problem that would endanger my crew or myself. It depends what class you attend and the instructor. The USCG ticket is a proof that you belong at sea to everyone that sails with you. I would have a hard time finding crew when I need it, i.e for long crossings, etc.
Anyway out there I trust God, my boat, NOAA, my Garmin and myself.
Ernie on the Mary Jane in St Croix for now

Wifey B: And it depends on how seriously you take the courses. We took them seriously. We don't need to prove anything to anyone, but we feel good about ourselves to know we've done it. As adults you generally learn things just to improve your own knowledge, to know more. You don't read about things going on in the world to pass a test, you do it because you want the knowledge. The pursuit of knowledge is a trait that can serve you well your entire life. Our instructors were good. Out training captains were great.

[Hoosiersailor]

Originally Posted by sailon46

The USCG ticket is a proof that you belong at sea to everyone that sails with you. I would have a hard time finding crew when I need it, i.e for long crossings, etc.
Anyway out there I trust God, my boat, NOAA, my Garmin and myself.
Ernie on the Mary Jane in St Croix for now

In that order?

[CarinaPDX]

There are other ways to knowledge. I personally took all of the Power Squadron courses (Full Certificate) which was very comprehensive but without on-the-water time. They offered a short course to fill in the gaps for the USCG exam (things like loading a vessel), but that was of little use to a cruiser. For a lot more money today one could take the ASA courses instead. My recommendation, though, would be to enroll in an RYA course that starts at Competent Crew and leads to a Yachtmaster license. It is a full-time course, about half a year IIRC. It is immersive, with lots of sea time. It can be used as a commercial license in many places, with the addition of a safety course.

A USCG license is expensive and time-consuming to maintain, so unless there is a real need it is unnecessary to go there. Certainly if you know what you are doing that will be obvious quickly, and if you don't then no piece of paper will be convincing. Aside from the merchant marine oriented questions, any good course will get you to that level of knowledge. And the only practical requirement for the USCG is the hours at sea, which is self-reported and need not be done under other captains, licensed or not. IMHO to be a good captain one should crew with other captains while learning; if all of the sea time is on one's own boat then that is pretty limited experience, no matter how long.

As I understand it, legally a recreational skipper is held to a "gross negligence" standard, while a commercial captain is held to a "simple negligence" standard. Practically that may have no impact on a USCG enquiry, but if someone wants to sue for damages then it might be a costly difference. Given that it is pretty rare for a recreational skipper to be sued, I think there are many other issues more worthy of attention.

Greg

[CSY Man]

. A USCG license is expensive and time-consuming to maintain

Not the basic ticket like a 100 ton: If you don't have the Sea time, take a short course, like 5-6 hrs in 1 day for $199, open book test included.
Medical and drug test about $200, then the Twic another $100 or $150.
$500-600 or so every five years.
I make that in 1 day doing Charters with my boat.

[seabreez]

Originally Posted by KISS

For those with no intention of doing commercial skippering, what is the value of a USCG captain's license? It occurs to me that it could be useful in dealing with insurers or government bureaucrats in some situations. Anyone have any experience? Also, in a similar vein, would you recommend doing more ASA courses than one needs for pure educational purposes, just to build one's sailing CV?

All said and done, I hold a Master Limited <60 tons and working for a construction company and at the end of the day I was given an order that I knew was gonna get someone wet and the tug under. I refused 5 times and then did it. The tug flipped and I was caught in it. I was rescued and the responsibility was never questioned. The authorities tried to make me responsible but I had witnesses that supported my claim and I was not responsible. From then on The Captain word is law. Lots of responsibilities for the money it pays.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by CSY Man

Not the basic ticket like a 100 ton: If you don't have the Sea time, take a short course, like 5-6 hrs in 1 day for $199, open book test included.
Medical and drug test about $200, then the Twic another $100 or $150.
$500-600 or so every five years.
I make that in 1 day doing Charters with my boat.

Right. I would say that is expensive if there was no income associated with it.

We're not talking about licenses that are required, we are talking about licenses that are acquired for other reasons.

Also, it can be frustrating, if amusing to other cruisers, to try to submit a urine sample from a distant port. First order the sample container from an approved (US) lab, have it shipped to the boat, find a doctor willing to watch you pee into a cup and sign off, then ship it back to the lab as a biohazard. I watched one cruiser tie himself in knots about it, insisting that he shouldn't have to go through that. Yeah right.

I don't understand the comment about not having sea time; AFAIK sea time is a requirement. My point is that sea time with only oneself to learn from is rather limited in value.

Greg

[lesterbutch]

I agree with a lot of the comments on this topic! I had a 1600 ton ticket and it took me years to achieve it. I can't think of anything I've ever done that was nearly as hard to do! The payoff was miniscule in relation to the output! Would I do it again? Hell No! Put your money and effort into something worthwhile!

[captmikem]

Originally Posted by CSY Man

Not the basic ticket like a 100 ton: If you don't have the Sea time, take a short course, like 5-6 hrs in 1 day for $199, open book test included.
Medical and drug test about $200, then the Twic another $100 or $150.
$500-600 or so every five years.
I make that in 1 day doing Charters with my boat.

I stand corrected.. a Ship Master license requires 7 years seatime on vessels over 500 tons, 3 years (or a four year maritime college) and you can get a third mates license. Then another year sea time and you can sit for 2ed mate, another year and Chief Mate, and another year at sea and you can sit for your Masters License.

This takes a lot of time and a lot of money. A large investment of time. When I sat for my first license it took over a week to take all of the tests. All essay questions, you were given a 3x5 card with the question, and a legal pad to write your answers on. There were only two questions on rules of the road. !. Write the international Rules, 2. Write the Inland Rules.

Small boat licenses appear to be totally different, however I doubt one could sail as on OS with one.

These used to be called "operators Licenses".

Kindly disregard my previous post.

M