Couple with No Sailing Experience Buying Catamaran and In Need of Insurance Advice

[loneshark64]

Originally Posted by Bamboo1

.
I am sure I speak for every yacht owner when I say the exams do not teach you how to own and maintain a yacht. Again, electrical and mechanical courses are available to give you a basic knowledge, but we all learn from experience and by talking.

This is very true. I wish you the best with your purchase. If it’s your dream, buy the boat. But learning to maintain is important especially on a large used cat with a lot of systems.

I had dreams of live aboard sailing but life has intervened and also my wife has turned out to be uncomfortable on boats. So when we retired we got a home in the water and I bought a plastic fantastic 80s vintage sloop. I am glad I did. Though I had some experience and had taken ASA 101 and 103 and Power Squadron nav, the first times out in my own boat were terrifying. Many things went wrong. Eventually I learned but I am glad it was only 28 feet, not the 40 footer I wanted. I would have gotten somebody killed.

I have also learned how to fix the boat. I have fiberglass and gel coat and bottom paint experience now. Given it’s an old boat I drill holes and rip things out without trepidation. I know every inch of it even the electrical and I am no electrician. In July I am taking a course in Yanmar diesel repair! Best of all I paid cash for the boat and the insurance through Progressive is $330.

I don’t know about live aboard cruising but I have been on big cats and I believe I could handle one now. I know I could not have handled one before owning my current boat. My plan is to buy a 35 foot cutter in 2-3 years though.

[CarinaPDX]

First, an apology: I normally don't post until after reading the entire thread but at the moment I don't have time. So forgive the redundancies.

It always amazes me that people think that becoming a competent skipper is an afterthought to buying the boat. It takes time - a lot of time, actually - to learn to safely cruise a boat, and be truly up to the responsibility of keeping passengers and crew safe. It is not all that difficult; it just takes effort over a period of time. It is absurd to think that a few weeks of training is enough - it is only enough to get in over one's head. No one makes a good captain who hasn't mastered being a crew first. [Edit: Insurance companies know this and will not ensure an expensive boat for someone with no experience - the risk is far too high.]

If you want to make this happen, then first sign up for a comprehensive RYA Yachtmaster program (which is full-time for about half a year). This starts with being crew and builds the knowledge and experience to where any insurance company will recognize that you are ready to be responsible for a boat and the lives aboard. These courses include a lot of time living aboard and sailing in all conditions. There are a number of them on the south coast of England, IIRC there is one in Gibraltar, and scattered around the world. I know less about the ASA courses, but I see that they do offer courses in the material needed; however, I have never known of an ASA course as rigorous as the RYA program. Still, if the RYA course is too much for you then start with one of the training courses offered in Florida or the Caribbean. Just don't settle for anything that doesn't include substantial liveaboard time.

Once you have completed your training (both of you) you will be in a far better position to choose the right cruising boat for your needs. It might be the cat that you are looking at, but there is a good chance that it isn't. How can you know? Novices are often attracted to the larger boats, using the standard of living in a comfortable apartment as their guide. Cruising is something quite different. And large boats require more effort, skill, and money. In some cruising grounds it may not matter because you will be at anchor, but in many places (Europe comes to mind) finding a slip for the night, or the winter, for a large cat is mission impossible. I have had the experience of finding a slip while my friends on a larger boat had to leave because there were no large slips available. Depending on where you will cruise, and the style of cruising that you choose, this may or may not be important.

Must hit the road now.

Greg

[Capdave360]

Originally Posted by boatingisbetter

I really enjoyed the Canary Islands. And at least in 1995 they did not clear boats in or out.

You've given the OP a good anecdote and some good advice.

But if you didn't clear in or out of the Canaries in 1995 I think you may have shredded a few laws.......

Since my first time through in 1983 I've found they are pretty insistent on the formalities there!

[JMaav]

Originally Posted by SV Blown Away

Hello Everyone!

My wife and I are new to Cruisers Forum and.... we don't even know what we don't know....:

First of all, as far as insurance goes... lie... or you will just open your wallet. Yes, you have ‘a long list of cruising experience’...

Second, long before you leave a port, take intensive sailing courses. If you must travel from port to port, hire experienced crew (two night even be wise), and shadow what they do.

The Med is very calm sailing, most of the time... but there are shipwrecks there for a reason. Great boat choice, but comes with a host of its own learning issues... and some crew may not have experience with them. But, get training on how to motor, too. The twin hulls, with two screws and two throttles, is a huge plus... you will learn why when you get out of deep water!

In short, your nuts... but, I envy the hell outta you...

[Nahbrown]

Wait, I only read the OP. IS HE TALKING ABOUT CROSSING THE ATLANTIC? That wasn’t in the OP.


I strongly disagree with that notion unless you have a competent captain on board.


Our first sailboat is our Lagoon 440 and we have traveled all along the gulf coast of the USA then back around the keys And up the east coast of Florida. All outside and sometimes 100 miles off shore. But I wouldn’t try to cross the Atlantic at this point

Get the boat Hire an instructor to teach you on your boat and Then sail it around the Mediterranean. Learn and gain experience. If you must cross hire a captain and go with the ARC.

Another reason not to cross is you dont know your boat and it’s systems yet. When sailing the med you wont be far from shore and help if you have an electric, plumbing or mechanical issue. You need to learn your boat. After spending a year and a half on ours I know what needs fixing before we go remote Sailing. No, your survey didn’t find everything.

You need to learn how to Pay attention to weather and use the modern sources. You need to learn how to plan your routes and dont leave until the weather, waves and winds are acceptable (its never perfect) . What are the tides like where you are going? Is it a narrow inlet with the tide rushing against the wind creating Piled up waves that will ruin your day and put your vessel in danger? These are some of the things you need to not just learn but gain experience doing.


Ill say it again, Sailing isn't hard. In fact using a main and a jib is simple once you do it a few times. Weather routing, fixing things that break, learning your boat systems And knowing how to slow your boat to keep it safe are the complications that require experience.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by JMaav

First of all, as far as insurance goes... lie... or you will just open your wallet. Yes, you have ‘a long list of cruising experience’...


In short, your nuts... but, I envy the hell outta you...

While the OP's desire might be a bit of a stretch, this advice to lie to get cheaper insurance might be the worst advice I have seen yet on this thread.


Only do that if you want to later make a claim and have it rejected. So, Please don't take shortcuts on insurance or any other aspect of sailing.

[Capdave360]

Originally Posted by JMaav

First of all, as far as insurance goes... lie... or you will just open your wallet. Yes, you have ‘a long list of cruising experience’...

...

WOW - that really lit me up!!

First, it's terrible advice - if they have a significant loss, the underwriter will leave no stone unturned looking for a way out, and such an easily discovered lie will likely result in the denial of the claim. Every policy I've ever seen gives the issuer this "easy out" for misrepresentation.

Second - it's exactly this kind of behavior that makes insurance harder for the rest of us. Because some people do lie, the policies become ever more elaborate with lawyerese trying to protect the underwriter, and the premiums keep rising because they can't catch every fraud and they need to make a profit to stay in business.

Third - well, I don't have a quick third, but give me time. Ugh!

[QD.]

Great to hear of your sailing plans. Cruisers forum is a double edged sword as far as advice goes, but I have been in a similar situation so I hope this helps.

After an injury changing my outlook on life I decided to go sailing instead! We moved to an active sailing community here in Australia and myself and daughters joined the local yacht club and crewed as often as we could over 2 seasons. We hired a trawler for a week to see if we liked staying aboard without the hassle of dealing with sails and rig, we all loved it. I then did my RYA day skipper, over 6 days and nights on a monohull. This along with theory nav was excellent. The more I learnt the more I realised I didn’t know...

In August last year I bought a trimaran in Pensacola and over 3 months sailed to the Bahamas with my family and had a great time. The one thing that made it doable was help from the seller at every step of the way, and going through all the systems on the boat with him after the purchase. He and family have become great friends but I’m not sure I could have made it through the many problems I encountered without his help!
However I’m now stuck at home in Australia and we are heading towards eradication of coved 19. But I fear I won’t be allowed to travel back and forth to USA for a very long time given the rates of infection there. I expect borders may be shut for a long time in some countries and some will open then close again. I would not plan on travelling freely on a sailboat over international borders for at least the rest of this year.
Florida and the Caribbean are great cruising grounds, my first suggestion would be buy a boat in your home country in these uncertain times. My boat is now stuck in the Bahamas approaching hurricane season. Get the experience you need now, go sailing as much as you can, things will go wrong that’s part of sailing and you will be learning forever!

As far as insurers go it took a while to find one but they (northern reef) have now gone belly up, our brokers managed to find another insurer but it can be tough.

Most of all don’t give up on your dreams..

[Iains boatyard]

Originally Posted by StuM

Northern Reef have gone bust leaving a lot of people without cover!

As I understand Northern Reef may have gone bust but Edward William the Broker has not and is arranging continued Insurance thru other Insurers if you so desire for a small fee of course. Thats business!

[Snyper]

Use a broker to get insurance they deal with multiple insurance sources not just one you may just be able to get liability full coverage has a million different limitations like where you can go time of year, ports, home port,

[SV Blown Away]

Originally Posted by Snyper

Use a broker to get insurance they deal with multiple insurance sources not just one you may just be able to get liability full coverage has a million different limitations like where you can go time of year, ports, home port,

Hi Snyper, thank you so much! Do you have any suggestions for brokers?

[SV Blown Away]

Originally Posted by Iains boatyard

As I understand Northern Reef may have gone bust but Edward William the Broker has not and is arranging continued Insurance thru other Insurers if you so desire for a small fee of course. Thats business!

Thank you so much! That's good information!

[369thegoose]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

SV Blown Away, I actually clicked of your post but you know curiosity killed the cat. Have you never sailed at all? That is a beast of a first boat to buy and go sailing on. A 26 foot beam takes some getting used to in tight spaces even for experienced sailors.
Have you tried a company called Northern Reef, they have a name for insuring anything that floats here in Australia. I think they are an offshore company that have a bad name for paying out.
Who ever insures you for the first year will probably charge a fortune and once you have some experience then you should easily be able to change insurers.......maybe.
The other way is to get some experience first then buy the cat. By the time you get the experience you may realise you do not need an apartment block just for the two of you?
Not knocking the Lagoon, I surveyed a 450F and it felt pretty big on the water.
Cheers

Do the RYA coastal course, theory online and 5 days practical on boat.

[captiankaos]

Hi. You will want to start asking insurance companies now. There are a lot of them getting out of the yacht business. Ours will no longer provide coverage at our renewal. This is the second company that has done this. As I am researching trying to find a new company, the agents are having the same issue finding companies that are staying in the business. Our company is a worldwide company that is getting out of yacht coverage. Most companies will require you to have a captain or someone with experience for awhile. Good luck.

[holyhi]

We read your post and have lots to say. The Med is challenging for experienced sailors. The Lagoon is a nice boat and really large for a couple. Neil my husband with his captain’s license and 25 years experience helped another couple be able to “leave the slip” with their insurance company when we were in Puerto Rico last year. They signed off after a few lessons anchoring, maneuvering and putting a 26 foot beam 45 ft cat back in a very tight space. Your quest is doable but your timeline maybe a setup for some really challenging experiences. If we can assist, we would be glad to.