What would you buy?

[Astropin]

Originally Posted by Shrew

Because this entire forum is really about 98+% sailing oriented. I'd send you to this forums sister site "TrawlerForum.com" but I'm not sure that is the right direction for you either.

I singed up at the trawler forum...back when I was interested in running "the loop".

But a trawler is not what I'm looking for now.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Astropin

A friend of mine has a Sea Ray Sundancer 401 (2001). Nice boat, nice layout, possible (but not easy) to handle single handed. He highly recommends it. Says the 2001-2011 are the ones to own.

Twin diesel's, two heads. Says he can trawl along at 7-8 kts and get decent fuel economy, but obviously has the option to burn fuel if he's in the mood to play around...or to outrun a storm.

Astropin - as someone else suggested, you may want to try TrawlerForum.com for more recommendations. Chances are you'll get many, many recommendations. $200k for a 40-footer is probably realistic. I'm more of a displacement guy, so don't know the planing boats well except for brands, but there are many people who could assist at TF.

To CF - don't know about others, but I see all posts and there are no differentials between power/sail or any of the other categories. If I look closely, I can see the file-tree, but it's not obvious.

Peter

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Astropin

I singed up at the trawler forum...back when I was interested in running "the loop".

But a trawler is not what I'm looking for now.

A lot of people with trawler-style boats, but many with other styles - and you may get some interesting suggestions (a Beneteau Swift Trawler is really not that much different than the SeaRay you mentioned). Frankly, when I signed-up I was expecting more of a cruising set - sailors on powerboats. 99.9% are folks who don't go too far. They may have at some point in the past, sometimes to the Bahamas, but not real cruisers. Honestly, CF isn't that much different in that regard, but at least CF has more modest equipment recommendations.

At the very least, TF would be a decent place to ask for other forums. I almost suggested TheHullTruth.com to you, but I think that's more a fishing boat site - good info on electronics.

Peter

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by Astropin

I'm formulating a retirement plan (still roughly 7 years away, give or take a few years). My first big boat is part of that plan. I've been boating since I was 10 and driving boats since I was 12...so 41 years. But, all of those have been small open bow boats on inland lakes.

Budget - 200k (Including funds left over for several years worth of maintenance and initial upgrades). I figure after several years I will have learned enough to do more and more maintenance on my own and have the boat upgraded to where I like it...or maybe I get lucky and buy one just the way I want it. And yes...I realize I'll still need an annual budget for maintenance regardless of how much I learn to do myself.

I'm the type of guy who will want fairy recent electronics installed.

- Guess you are looking at a motor boat... the selection is endless for what you describe and so, with most motor boats, also their sharp depreciation.

- If your overall budget is $200K for several years, look for a well maintained boat at a purchase cost of max $75-100K, as any boat will need a refit and upgrades.
- Electronics, are in fact, a rather minor subject with the overall cost of refit. Think of engines, generator, tanks, systems etc. as major sources of future expenses (lucky not to have rigging and sails too... )

[Astropin]

Based on what I keep looking at it's boiling down to an "Express Cruiser" vs a "Flybridge" or "Sedan Cruiser".

Express Cruiser - Single deck (usually mostly open) above the hull with the Salon being located up front and below deck. The open deck is nice for entertaining and enjoying the weather. The Salon is like entering a cave. It's nice, but not a place with a view of the outside. Great for getting out of the weather...and for privacy. Possible to dock single-handed. Lighter and capable of a higher top speed.

Flybridge - If you want to hang out outside you need to go up top. No real space to hang out close to the water. So lots of steps. That being said the indoor (larger) salon is usually surrounded by large windows. You can hang out indoors and still have a great view. Too hot out, too windy, too chilly, just head in and still have a view. Harder to dock...probably impossible single-handed.

Going to boil down to how it will be used most of the time. Mostly just short day trips...head out, have some fun, come back in...Express Cruiser would make more sense.

Longer trips or more overnight trips, the Flybridge or Sedan Cruiser would make more sense.

Do I have that right?

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by DeValency

- Guess you are looking at a motor boat... the selection is endless for what you describe and so, with most motor boats, also their sharp depreciation.

- If your overall budget is $200K for several years, look for a well maintained boat at a purchase cost of max $75-100K, as any boat will need a refit and upgrades.
- Electronics, are in fact, a rather minor subject with the overall cost of refit. Think of engines, generator, tanks, systems etc. as major sources of future expenses (lucky not to have rigging and sails too... )

Well said!

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Astropin

I'm formulating a retirement plan (still roughly 7 years away, give or take a few years). My first big boat is part of that plan. I've been boating since I was 10 and driving boats since I was 12...so 41 years. But, all of those have been small open bow boats on inland lakes.

Ideally, I would like to get something in the 40ft range and diesel-powered.

ICW use of mostly shorter trips. Lots of day trips with some longer trips sprinkled in. Most likely will be living in the Carolina's or possibly Florida.

Budget - 200k (Including funds left over for several years worth of maintenance and initial upgrades). I figure after several years I will have learned enough to do more and more maintenance on my own and have the boat upgraded to where I like it...or maybe I get lucky and buy one just the way I want it. And yes...I realize I'll still need an annual budget for maintenance regardless of how much I learn to do myself.

I'm the type of guy who will want fairy recent electronics installed.

Forget the electronics. Buy a sound boat. For your cruising desirers ICW and short trips. A depth finder, a pair of binoculars, compass and VHS.

[Avast]

Bayliner/Meridian 45/47/49

Little bigger, decent quality, whole lot of boat for the money, decent economy when at trawler speeds, speed when you need it, great visibility from the pilot house, fairly low air/water drafts, good owners groups with knowledge. I am trying really hard to find a reason not to buy one for our next boat as they are bigger than I'd like, but they do tick many of the boxes we want to tick.

Obviously not an offshore trawler, but pretty versatile.

[Lost Horizons]

Originally Posted by Astropin

Based on what I keep looking at it's boiling down to an "Express Cruiser" vs a "Flybridge" or "Sedan Cruiser".

Express Cruiser - Single deck (usually mostly open) above the hull with the Salon being located up front and below deck. The open deck is nice for entertaining and enjoying the weather. The Salon is like entering a cave. It's nice, but not a place with a view of the outside. Great for getting out of the weather...and for privacy. Possible to dock single-handed. Lighter and capable of a higher top speed.

Flybridge - If you want to hang out outside you need to go up top. No real space to hang out close to the water. So lots of steps. That being said the indoor (larger) salon is usually surrounded by large windows. You can hang out indoors and still have a great view. Too hot out, too windy, too chilly, just head in and still have a view. Harder to dock...probably impossible single-handed.

Going to boil down to how it will be used most of the time. Mostly just short day trips...head out, have some fun, come back in...Express Cruiser would make more sense.

Longer trips or more overnight trips, the Flybridge or Sedan Cruiser would make more sense.

Do I have that right?

Mostly, except you missed a couple of important points.

1) if you ever get caught in a storm or simply go the Caribbean from Florida, generally, an express cruiser is the safest planning vessel with the least windage and lack of windows. It will also be more comfortable to helm due to the lower amplitude of motion compared to the flying bridge helm location. A proper trawler is safer yet, but those are outside of your budget and generally not the best use case for what you have in mind. You will probably get a decent seakeeping characteristics with a deep-V hull at displacement speeds, which is what you will be doing in a storm of when going to the Caribbean, but steering with those tiny rudders may be problematic. The autopilot may or may not be happy. Steering with pod drives should be better, but the cost of maintenance and reliability issues may be a problem as well as the price point - they usually are found on newer models. Personally, I would avoid pod drives at all costs unless the boat will spend most of the time on a lift out of water.

2) docking is still going to be more difficult with an express cruiser compared to a sailboat or a trawler with a side door from the pilothouse next to the mid-ship cleat. Most likely, you will be backing into the slip all the time and using the swim platform to step onto the dock. Whether you can be comfortable doing it or not will determine your interest in taking the boat out.

[Astropin]

Originally Posted by Lost Horizons

Mostly, except you missed a couple of important points.

Good points. I'm not new to boating...but this will be a big leap in size. My current boat (of the last 14 years) has dual engines with dual throttles, and I have mastered moving it around, even in some bad conditions.

I will do whatever it takes to master maneuvering the boat I purchase...and I'm normally a quick study...or obsessive study anyway.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by captlloyd

Good points, but I question that 1.5 figure at 20 knots especially with twin diesels. Yes, you can run slower, but then a trawler starts making more sense. A cat might be a very good option.

I said 1.0mpg for a 40fter.

1.5mpg was for our 31fter with twin chrysler 360's.

[Astropin]

Funny observation:

This place is called "Cruisers Forum". It's also 98.5% about sailing.

I'm 53...I've been around boats my whole life. Cruisers were ALWAYS powerboats to me. Sailboats were sailboats...or possibly "cats" (in some cases) or a "sailing yacht". But never "cruisers".

Guess I've been living in a "bubble".

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Lost Horizons

Mostly, except you missed a couple of important points.

1) if you ever get caught in a storm or simply go the Caribbean from Florida, generally, an express cruiser is the safest planning vessel with the least windage and lack of windows. It will also be more comfortable to helm due to the lower amplitude of motion compared to the flying bridge helm location. A proper trawler is safer yet, but those are outside of your budget and generally not the best use case for what you have in mind. You will probably get a decent seakeeping characteristics with a deep-V hull at displacement speeds, which is what you will be doing in a storm of when going to the Caribbean, but steering with those tiny rudders may be problematic. The autopilot may or may not be happy. Steering with pod drives should be better, but the cost of maintenance and reliability issues may be a problem as well as the price point - they usually are found on newer models. Personally, I would avoid pod drives at all costs unless the boat will spend most of the time on a lift out of water.

2) docking is still going to be more difficult with an express cruiser compared to a sailboat or a trawler with a side door from the pilothouse next to the mid-ship cleat. Most likely, you will be backing into the slip all the time and using the swim platform to step onto the dock. Whether you can be comfortable doing it or not will determine your interest in taking the boat out.

A lot of generalizations here. When I was delivering - mostly trawlers and mostly between Alaska and Mexico, though some to Florida, my observation is that the most common style of recreational boat through the Panama Canal was sport fishers. Listening to many naysayers on this thread, vast majority of these small rudder non-sail boats should have sunk long before reaching the Canal.

Peter

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by captlloyd

I see your point using the mobile version, however the OP does state a few comments into the post that he’s looking for a cruising speed of around 20 knots. Unless you’re in a hurricane with all sails out that’s going to be tough to do.

LOL - Guess I missed the reference to 20 kts….

Warmly,
LittleWing77

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Astropin

Part of the reason I asked what people would buy is because I'm not entirely sure at this point.

Originally Posted by Astropin

Based on what I keep looking at it's boiling down to an "Express Cruiser" vs a "Flybridge" or "Sedan Cruiser".

Express Cruiser - Single deck (usually mostly open) above the hull with the Salon being located up front and below deck. The open deck is nice for entertaining and enjoying the weather. The Salon is like entering a cave. It's nice, but not a place with a view of the outside. Great for getting out of the weather...and for privacy. Possible to dock single-handed. Lighter and capable of a higher top speed.

Flybridge - If you want to hang out outside you need to go up top. No real space to hang out close to the water. So lots of steps. That being said the indoor (larger) salon is usually surrounded by large windows. You can hang out indoors and still have a great view. Too hot out, too windy, too chilly, just head in and still have a view. Harder to dock...probably impossible single-handed.

Going to boil down to how it will be used most of the time. Mostly just short day trips...head out, have some fun, come back in...Express Cruiser would make more sense.

Longer trips or more overnight trips, the Flybridge or Sedan Cruiser would make more sense.

Do I have that right?

We found our express boat cramped (like living in a cave) after a few days aboard... whereas we've spent 5 months aboard the most recent flybridge boat.

Some express cruisers would have been better suited to longer stays aboard than ours was. See for example a Sabre 48... mentioned only to illustrate the point, not as a recommendation. (Although they do look nifty.)

Then again, some flybridge boats are better suited to us than others. For example, ours had stairs to the bridge, not a ladder... which means I could carry Happy Hour up there with no problems, the big dogs would get up and down by themselves, etc. Yes, large windows inside a comfortable saloon was a very nice feature. Yes, we spent much of our leisure time on the bridge anyway, especially in good weather.

Yes, more windage on a flybridge boat. (Even more, usually, on an aft-cabin motor yacht flybridge boat.)

Ours was not harder to dock. Ours could be single-handed MUCH of the time. Adding a bow thruster would have made it single-handable (?) almost all of the time. Adding a stern thruster would have been the complete solution... but then again I didn't need to do all that... so didn't.

I suspect you'll just have to look at LOTS of boats to get a feel for what might attract you. You could rummage through the Powerboat Guide for info on layouts, etc. (although not all powerboats are actually IN the Powerboat Guide).

-Chris