LOA Measurement Question

[Tcheairs]

Would a 51' (LOA length overal) lBluewater Coastal Cruiser measurement include the bow pulpit (where the anchor is stored?) Or just the point where the bow vertically joins the deck? My bow pulpit is about 24" additional inches.

(Tried to insert a link to the builder's blueprint, but this post wouldn't take the link).

[rslifkin]

It varies depending on the boat and the age. On many older boats, the claimed "LOA" is really the LOD (length on deck), so it's just the hull length and doesn't include anything that's bolted on rather than molded in (such as a pulpit or swim platform). Some builders do give the true LOA though (and newer boats are generally better about doing this).

I'm not sure what Bluewater specifically did for that boat.

[GordMay]

FWIW: Marinas, that charge by the foot, typically base the charge on LOA, including all appendages [swim platform, pulpit, bow anchor roller, etc]

[Tcheairs]

Bow pulpit of my boat is molded into the deck. I should be able walk the length and measure it with my Iphone measure app. Just wondered if there was a standardized definition for LOA for yacth manufacturers. I guess not. Thanks for the response

[wrwakefield]

This is one acronym that defines itself: LOA = Length overall.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Length_overall

It isn’t unique to boats, either. e.g., when booking passage for a vehicle on our ferry system one must specify LOA. That might include a portion of the sea kayaks you have on the roof rack, or the trailer you are towing.

Our 43 ft ketch is 50 ft LOA. Manufacturers may specify an LOA as designed, but they won’t know if you added davits, etc. that might increase LOA.

LOA can’t be fudged.

FWIW

Cheers, Bill

PS: My standard body model came with a 28 inch waist in early adulthood, but it has steadily increased from the base model specs over the years. Can’t cheat that measurement either…

[Benz]

People define lenghts differently according to purpose. My boat is 31 feet for documentation purposes: that's the length from stem to stern, and does not count appendages. For slips/haulouts, I'd get charged 36 feet for the bowsprit, if I didn't remove it (it comes off easy--that was strategic). For the Panama Canal, the admeasurer logged it at 37'--he went from the back end of outboard to the tip of the bowsprit.

A schooner I work on calls herself "80 feet," but that's the "sparred length," which accounts for the boom sticking out aft, and is different from the LOA, which measures from the end of the davits to the bowsprit end.

So there's fudging room, depending on the purpose for the measurement.

[Fintry]

Although it is counter-intuitive, Length Overall refers to the length of the hull and does not include bowsprits, pulpits, swim platforms, or rub rails. That is the dimension that your USCG document should show.


See 46 CFR 170.055 (k)(2) "Length overall (LOA) means the horizontal distance between the forward-most and after-most points on the hull."


The Wikipedia cite above, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Length_overall, says, "LOA is usually measured on the hull alone."


Wikipedia cites Westlawn, "Length overall (LOA) is the length from the forwardmost tip of the bow to the aftermost end of the stern of a vessel’s primary hull structure. Length overall (LOA) does not include projections from the primary hull structure, such as: anchor rollers, bowsprits, pushpits, railings, or swim or transom platforms (that are not integral parts of the hull structure)." A variety of other cites in the WP article concur.


As noted above, marinas and some taxing authorities will want the actual total length of the vessel which is almost always more than LOA.


Jim

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Tcheairs

Just wondered if there was a standardized definition for LOA for yacth manufacturers. I guess not. Thanks for the response

You are correct. There is no official, standard definition of the term. Some people/marinas/manufacturers include bow and stern appendages, which (to me) seems like the logical thing for length overall. Regardless of whether it is logical or not, though, there are those who do NOT include any appendages when they are talking about LOA. Even more confusing, some might include molded in appendages (like your bowsprit), but exclude it if it is a separate, added-on piece.

So, bottom line, whenever you hear someone talking about a boat's LOA you need to clarify exactly what they mean by that.

[Fintry]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

.... There is no official, standard definition of the term.....

Actually, in the USA at least, as I cited above, there is an official standard definition of LOA .

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Fintry

Actually, in the USA at least, as I cited above, there is an official standard definition of LOA .

For USCG documentation purposes, yes. But manufacturers are not bound to that definition when publishing spec sheets.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Fintry

Actually, in the USA at least, as I cited above, there is an official standard definition of LOA .

No, that is not a legally binding, official standard. It is the definition used by one agency. Various marinas, manufacturers, and individuals use different definitions. There is NOT one, standard definition that is used by everyone.

[boatpoker]

it has been my experience that actual LOA rarely matches what the mfg. states. Some Mfgs. include the bow platform, some don't. Some include swim platforms, some don't. There is no consistency.

I charge by the foot for surveys and many years ago after many arguments about how long a boat was (after I measured it) I started charging by the LOA published by the mfg. ... that stopped all arguments. Sometimes I win a little, sometimes I loose a little.
Even model numbers do not reflect actual length.

eg. Bayfield 36 actually measures 41' LOA
Bayliner 3255 actually measures 35' 2" LOA

[Bowdrie]

No, it isn't just something for "Documentation" purposes.
And yes, should some issue arise in a US court the Coast Guard definition will be seen as "official".
LOA is listed and defined in the CFRs.
Ok, just going from my old memory on it.
"Length Over All" is defined as the distance from the forward most part of the stem to the aftermost part of the sternpost".
And as stated above, the various protrusions/bowsprits/booms, etc., that are not part of the ships hull structure are not included in LOA.
That various marinas/haul-out facilities wish to use other measurements in no way changes the official/legal meaning.
And as previously posted there are terms such as "Sparred Length" and "Length On Deck".
They came from the days of sail when "sparred length" was used to charge for the length the ship took-up on a pier, (sound familiar, like what slip length the marina wants to charge for,) and "length on deck" was, (originally,) seen as the available cargo area between the aft cabins for captain/officers and the forward cabins/galley for the crew, but over time became a "floating" measurement unrelated to cargo capacity.

[Tin Tin]

Where it is important to water authorities, they will normally include a statutory definition of length overall (eg. for speed limits) just for the purposes of the regulations.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

No, it isn't just something for "Documentation" purposes.
And yes, should some issue arise in a US court the Coast Guard definition will be seen as "official".
LOA is listed and defined in the CFRs.
Ok, just going from my old memory on it.
"Length Over All" is defined as the distance from the forward most part of the stem to the aftermost part of the sternpost".
And as stated above, the various protrusions/bowsprits/booms, etc., that are not part of the ships hull structure are not included in LOA.
That various marinas/haul-out facilities wish to use other measurements in no way changes the official/legal meaning.
And as previously posted there are terms such as "Sparred Length" and "Length On Deck".
They came from the days of sail when "sparred length" was used to charge for the length the ship took-up on a pier, (sound familiar, like what slip length the marina wants to charge for,) and "length on deck" was, (originally,) seen as the available cargo area between the aft cabins for captain/officers and the forward cabins/galley for the crew, but over time became a "floating" measurement unrelated to cargo capacity.

... and don't forget Tonnage Measurement Length and Register Length