Cruisers Forum

Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 23-05-2022, 09:04   #1

Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 85
Sail usage gift

With pleasure brother. Good luck on vessel purchase.

Purchase of wind.

Triangles, squares, circles.
All sails benefit from practice of flowing leeward tails.

Triangles. Often known as coastal sails. High power ratio sails. Leverage sails. Great for coastal where space confined may be an issue. Okay for passage making where early reduction of sail area may save the straw from breaking the camels back for many of us inclusive of myself. They dance the wind.

Lateen sail. Often thought of as a high point sail yet does and doesn't. With halyard bracing leach, tack bracing luff. Tack luff creates a sail that is assumed to have a long luff yet might have a head luffing a tack at its feet. Bow to the wind, we crawl. Great for coastal because we can beat upwind.
Cat rig. Fixed luff. Big fixed luff. Open to winds dance hence the mast is a spar. A dancing sail.
Combination making a dancing vessel that will spear. Like a racing car. Powerful fast revving, excells with coastal work.
But when wind strength grows, such is leverage remains in place and soon overpowers our vessels.
We crawl into storm fronts if caught out.

Square sails. Benefits from reduced leverages if any at all. A very simple yardstick braces head and allows such sail to torque with wind. Ideally a blue water sail. A passage sail. A shipping sail.
Disadvantages include setting of braces to allow head torque and stowing of sail. But heavy wind isn't an issue. Sheets are controlled outputs of power. Want more? Want less? Smaller sails in uniform create an array to reduce tensions of control lines. It is simply a sail designed for sheer speed.
Storm speed of vessel? Flexible luffs dance a flexible dance that is humbled by Gale. As dance strength grows Gale winds that are torquing with head of sail invite squares up to feel true and vessel lifts to run into a storm which is a smooth path compared to crawl. How smooth? Chains snap yet some braces are chained!!

Circle. Marvellous invention was discovered near 200 years ago on a vessel named 'Sphinx'
Sometimes confused as a pull me along type of catchment that is CONTROLLED BY THE WIND.
Maybe best used as a Lateen sail opening up to dance?
Maybe I can't explain. Guy eye points yet points with true thus we learn to reach. With focus and tension towards zero guy eye opens a luff creating a small very flexible dance. A conversion sail? Brings triangulated power type sail revs to a torquable leading edge and allows acceptance of invites up.
I like them. Triangles, squares, circles. I don't know how 2 use neither but they all work excellent if leeward practiced. I think many control lines and inability to explain circle had me thinking of a similar throttle body on a square rig.

That's watt eye work N on.
Looking at junk as a more complicated square rig with simpler control lines.
About a 1 minute per spar extra control line to enable a circular type sail rev enhancer, reducer on pneumatic engine known as fixed head fixed foot square sail.
Thus if in trouble and needing to reduce she'd gift engine with a quick squirt as area reduced and visa versa. Drop revs slightly to engage more area thus reducing snap of yards on spar. Nice and gentle yet with fierce thrust.
Should work okay. On a hi. Phone tomorrow I'll be discussing possible to change later ketch rig with seller as my possible retirement home. Intentions are a safe blue water pneumatic engine system.

I don't really sail well. But remember just flow leeward side incase you need to get out of trouble. Practice makes purr fit.

Edit: 2ND thoughts I'd better add hull.
Many like the multiple leverages and high flow of vertical tapered dagger boards and blade rudders(keel and rudder)
Many like the bracing that Lee flow provides along longer keels with beautiful leverage reduction during broach that lower fore, aft keelson rudder stock alignments provide especially when braking hull speed during strong winds during flexible luff lift towards true. Eg broach speed bursts to gap past lumpy seas with.
Would suit both styles in my opinion but my opinion isn't factual. Just a half truth.
Retirement home is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-05-2022, 09:15   #2
Registered User
Greatest Lakes's Avatar

Join Date: May 2021
Location: Michigan
Boat: Columbia 9.6, Hunter Cherubini 37, Jeanneau 57
Posts: 295
Images: 3
Re: Sail usage gift

Why did I read this?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P4160051_thumb_36ce20612eb696c0933d9b7c4b0650ee.jpg
Views:	55
Size:	49.9 KB
ID:	258214  
Greatest Lakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-05-2022, 19:32   #3

Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 85
Re: Sail usage gift

Originally Posted by Greatest Lakes View Post
Why did I read this?
More talented than I?
Maybe probability high.

More talented than eye?
Gale can get strong.

If lions invented a circle sail that opens a flexible luff then coastal triangles can be invited to point ever higher during events such as storm. Safer high speed ride during messy conditions. But like a lion, pride is required. Takes up many hands.

If tigers invented a circle that compliments old lady Gales invite towards true with a leach variation control of quick, simple and very light tension then offshore square sails can be maintained without need of rudder brake which when heavy leads to rudder break plus ability to continue on a fast true reach during storm safely. Tigers are lonely.

Just cruising too bro. I love kayaks. I've found 3 aft model 44 footers that would stow my 14 foot port inspection kayaks lovely on rear deck.

Amazes me too. Circle sails that is.. I don't understand why
Retirement home is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-05-2022, 19:34   #4
Jammer's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Minnesota
Boat: Tartan 3800
Posts: 4,016
Re: Sail usage gift

Have another toke
The difference between plans and dreams is that plans acknowledge the existence of inconvenient facts
Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-05-2022, 20:18   #5

Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 85
Re: Sail usage gift

With all due respect. I see boats built for lions being used for solo and short handed passages.

Boats built for short hand or solo are rare.

At home, my neighbours that I have met are all sloop, with age on I and maybe less experience. 1 stayless vessel is home amongst the 1000s. I think the old girl looks beautiful.

I'm practically an idiot yet have sailed many boats of pride. Grew up amongst a small handful of shipwrights and can't compliment knowledges of slip masters enough.

But I'm going sailing and I want to be fast and lazy so that I can take my time just cruising along. Isn't a new sail, just amazed.
Square sails will lift. Yet I'm far short of pride to tension lines, ropes and yards with.
Looking at junk eventually. Really no rush and I thoroughly enjoy coastal sails such as sloops.
Yet with a single sheet and a stayless mast bracing a yardstick array. Very short handed.
A single line to reef or raise?
A quick easy to sail without upper leach concentrator to enable burst speeds using much less reflex and strength on line. Ideal to me.
Might even make kids smile.

Want something to do? Just hold this.
They'll figure usage of relatively quickly.

Woohoo. A blue water sail that can coastal job too. Yeha.
No noisy rigging on anchor, heavier topside yet much less stationary wind edges.
My eyes are bursting because mathematics is paying well towards my safety and my future vessels knots during storms on a well rested crew if any.
Retirement home is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 10:39   #6

Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 85
Re: Sail usage gift

Yeah.. just tripping and getting older trying to figure how to get a blue water rig on a blue water hull that is a combination of easy effort on hands and tight navigation able.

Spinnaker had me thinking because of sails torqued luff.

Squares had me thinking because of wear and sheer ability via a yardstick.

Junks had me thinking because of coordination of squares and bonus or lack off.. always a pro with a con type.. coordination of a yard foot.
Eg looks like a sail stable headed, stable footed, stable with wind.

Upper sails moon raker and skyward sails have large leach. I'm guessing to control such would be to control something I'd like.. small part. Long life. Removable on non storm expected days during seats warm with crew. No one needs leave cockpit until pick on rest.

I'll post in a few years. First few years on rig vessel comes with anyhow. If junked, probability is a Sydney to Hobart entry later with a crew of 6 including helm.
Thus 4 in cockpit with 1 spar each; fore, main mast, missen and helm. 2 on rest and relaxation. Hopefully heavy weather.. where we live gets 70 knots in Lee of land sometimes. Boat will have big brakes for times of large horsepower.* Eg full keel length Lee tension flow. We are really happy too.

Systems older than us. It's out there somewhere.* To circle the upper sails and reduce their powerful leachs during heavy winds thus shutting down peak,* closing moon raker and skyward sails and using royal load to effectively peak luff rather than peak leach. Ie. Send mast skywards to rake the moon during storm by accepting wind dominant rather than leverage man made.
Old bloke. Getting older. Yet young. Almost 50. Beautiful old men. Thanks regarding loose footed dance ideas. Much better torquable luff, torquable leach, maybe.. me no climb mast though. Maybe. LOL
50 50 it works is my guess.
Sheered haul lines,* sheered braces, bent rigging both windward and Lee yet always managed to sail home. I just wanna get old and enjoy control of sail rather than make a stink in a storm.

I simply thought a full sail made better sense for off shore. Wind is fuel. Enough out their to power a jet turbine.* Redirection of wind is simply using such as fuel with wastage of excess allowed and stable to lift vessels stance. Hence more wind the merrier although sea states mess with that idea aswell as bracing to reduce sails propulsion thrust.
Best bit is entire system made of separate sails each maybe the size of the coastal ketch rig storm jib. Thus bracing manageable.* Plus sheer speed thus sail wear is from abrasive wind such as salt.*
I do type to much aye..
Long keels I like too.
Rudder effect of brake helps hilo of turbines thus if gentle and reflective braking is accelerator with very gentle effort.
They are beautifully slow vessels ideal for passage making.

Thus a yard braced head , yard braced feet square rig royal upper when moon raker and skyward are lashed to royal heads offshore rig after budget rebuilds enough to refit existing coastal rig?
Why coastal rig? Rig isn't as efficient as square thus lots of spillage which results in heel.
Why a secure footing square rig?
Simply a chance of much less brace tension yet a square rig.
I can explain.* Come aboard some day.
If father wind loving playing with our racing bouys and mother nature busy blowing heaps of seamen maybe old lady Gale will send us an invite.

Amazing is simplicity of a secure head full sail rig. An ability to thrust higher towards the wind source than any triangle sail yet said to be a downhill vessel.
Ever known that sailing can be much louder than a power boat? Sailing can be a jet turbine. An array of jet turbines. Just needs to be accelerated and have wind to fuel such. A trident of wind forms torquing luff with an apparent wind of from windward of true and an apparent wind from Lee that holds spar strong. No need to stay.
They can passage well.
Thanks for reading.*
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	images.jpeg-24.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	19.5 KB
ID:	258309   Click image for larger version

Name:	images.jpeg-20.jpg
Views:	25
Size:	30.8 KB
ID:	258310  

Retirement home is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 12:26   #7
Marine Service Provider
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 6,433
Re: Sail usage gift

Best wishes. Hope you get well soon.
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 19:57   #8

Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 85
Re: Sail usage gift

Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
Best wishes. Hope you get well soon.
Thank you.
I feel great. Ain't ill jjust sore like a sailor I guess.
I've had 7 facial broken bone, been found multiple times unconscious face buried by water, been without beat nor breath multiple times and couldn't walk for breakage of back at one time since I'd skippered a long keel fixed keel yacht.
I feel excellent.

I'm just seeking offshore rig. Fixed head square rig as used by shipping companies offer an infinite advantage with wind and simply wear on hide with strength on line. Yet I man and humbled by forces such as wind, wave and tide.
Fixing feet as well as head look like a square rig that knows wind is kind and has feet braced to withstand such
Maybe that's why junk rigs wear hide too?

We all well too bro.
Enjoy depth understanding your keel sir.
Kind regards.
Off shore versus coastal sails and freedom to choose mix and match usages of such
Retirement home is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 21:47   #9

Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 85
Re: Sail usage gift

Maybe. Just maybe.
Such a simple royal weapon can explain an off shore rig.

Reasons square rigs point higher than Bermuda rigged sloops with strong wind; eg storms.
Running during such events preferred to be avoided allowing full sails to have advantage of agility.

Bow of vessel is spearing wind.
Main centre prong of trident is true wind.
Windward prong of trident is apparent wind seen by luff. A torqued luff. Thus pressure system at sails leading edge is sourcing point of wind from a point higher than true wind.
True wind becoming sails system largest Lee flow to be accelerated like a jet turbine.
Lee wind prong is excess of fuel. Instead of spillage like a coastal sail system, excess is used to force vessel against heel.

Such an offshore sail is a natural balance and can become extremely loud.
I'm bending the truth though. My shaft is bent. To reach true point would require strength of brace beyond knowledge of any man.
A braced head is beautiful as it allows head to be strength of wind and thus heading into true wind a chore of mans ability to brace and embrace change.
Just torquing with wind brothers.

We gamble. Bracing foot now a chance to balance a dance with sail designs from earths once largest Navy; a navy of Chinese during emperor days of Tiger Qin. My history might be wrong yet pretty close to true maybe..

I'll remember to post in years to come when vessel has been used for coastal and converted to offshore later. I simply like their high point ability with agility that starts to be useful when turbine has enough fuel from source. Eg running smoothly in storms, well, ideally smoothly. Waves and tides help and hinder too.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	images.jpeg-25.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	11.6 KB
ID:	258347  
Retirement home is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2022, 23:59   #10

Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 85
Re: Sail usage gift

I found a beautiful picture of a coastal rig whilst searching for possible hulls I'd enjoy in 9-11 metre range.
I respectfully enjoy wind as best as I can embrace and thought ideas might help others with wonder and wander.

Sailing along is a 2 man crew that have established a torqued luff leading edge coastal sail system using a circle sail.
That'd be fast.
Picture of spinnaker luff and spinnaker leach showing defined points of intersections between luff and head, head and leach.
That sail is much bigger than multiple smaller sails and that sail shows a huge head that is curved and naturally flexible. Eg that's similar to a square rig on point but with much heavier bracing requirements than an array of smaller sails.
Torqued luff leading edge is 1 natural ability of a vessel to enable a thrust system that counters heeling rotation. Hence more thrust and more upright become with practice.
Biggest downfall to me is heavy wind bracing. That is the only reason I'd prefer offshore sails mentioned above. I lose some power compared to a spinnaker but gain ease of use and a higher pointing ability thanks to a yardstick head assembly.

BTW. I lied. Ain't my boat. Just an admirer. Most my years I'd have preferred a coastal sail set, a knowledge of Lee anchorages and an ability to smile and crawl home if caught when she blows.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1_3.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	62.3 KB
ID:	258350  
Retirement home is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-05-2022, 04:15   #11

Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 85
Re: Sail usage gift

Near where we are is an island with large natural cove. 2 bulls stand guard on entrance peninsula to large colony within.
Plenty of big sharks around there.

Thousands of years ago, Chinese medicine knew our blood spirals within our bodies flow. If in northern hemisphere, blood would spiral opposite direction of same man if man travelled into southern hemisphere. Like drains spiral water.

Getting closer to a cruising sailboat to use as home.
Triangles might be powerful.
Circles could flow.
Squares acceptance of show; like watching a TV.
Chinese had earths largest navy and developed a triangle headed square sail. Low ongoing costs, reliability and acceptance with strong winds enabling a vessel to run up the mountains.

I really like triangle sails too. Powerful main combined with a spinnaker can use guy to square true and create a fuller sail, eg a squarer sail such that site of wind is stable eyed and gifting a powerful leach. Racers do this. Rigging gets expensive.
Basically only reason I'm researching to alter rig is because I like quality and I like low costs. Maybe afew years away yet.
They are only decent if used properly, regardless of flow coordination.

Didn't mean any offence. Just building towards a cheap maintenance vessel for me. Eg light hands on minimal equipment that suits a clear picture of wind. Square gives a clear picture, triangle allows head to gain power hence tack full and circle well umm, sometimes wind gets stronger than comfort thus removing moonraker skyward and showing a humble royal reduction might allow plenty of sail area to remain strong and cost efficient on immediate hands and retarded hands that fix later on.
Or.. probably knot bother, storm main and mountain climb rather than a smooth mountain go at path voyage.

All well. Learning also.
Retirement home is offline   Reply With Quote


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
furling main sail mast into normal main usage? andreavanduyn General Sailing Forum 9 20-02-2009 08:52
furling main sail mast into normal main usage? andreavanduyn General Sailing Forum 1 10-02-2009 08:06

Advertise Here

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:40.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.