Jerry cans are unusable

[Captain Graham]

Originally Posted by Captain Graham

I tried a jiggle syphon but did not like it.
Instead I use a Battery Operated Liquid Transfer Pump I bought at harbor freight for $12.
There is a on/off switch on the top.

https://www.harborfreight.com/batter...ump-63847.html

I should add I also use MR Funnel to filter the fuel as I put it into my fuel tank.
Mr. Funnel is easy to find in auto parts stores or online.
https://www.mrfunnel.com/Mr._Funnel/Home.html

[thinwater]

For a jiggle siphon to work well you need the right geometry. Rest the can directly above the tank (no holding--you don't stand there and watch it), put the jiggle end in the can and push the hose as far into the filler as possible (that farther down, the greater the height difference, the faster the flow). Jiggle a little more than you need to, to get the air out of the hose. Try to MT the can in one shot (make certain the metal end is in the lowest corner of the can--chock the can up with a winch handle or some such, to get the last drop), since restarting is more difficult and air in the line does not help.



If you have the right geometry, they are steady and simple. If not ... then you won't like it.

[Captain Graham]

Originally Posted by thinwater

For a jiggle siphon to work well you need the right geometry. Rest the can directly above the tank (no holding--you don't stand there and watch it), put the jiggle end in the can and push the hose as far into the filler as possible (that farther down, the greater the height difference, the faster the flow). Jiggle a little more than you need to, to get the air out of the hose. Try to MT the can in one shot (make certain the metal end is in the lowest corner of the can--chock the can up with a winch handle or some such, to get the last drop), since restarting is more difficult and air in the line does not help.

If you have the right geometry, they are steady and simple. If not ... then you won't like it.

It worked fine, I just did not like it because.
1. I could not control the flow rate.
2. I had to balance the fuel can on the edge of the boat to be above the fill inlet.
3. The outside of the juggler hose get coated with diesel fuel making a bit of a mess.

I just found the battery operated pump to be easier.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Captain Graham

It worked fine, I just did not like it because.
1. I could not control the flow rate.
2. I had to balance the fuel can on the edge of the boat to be above the fill inlet.
3. The outside of the juggler hose get coated with diesel fuel making a bit of a mess.

I just found the battery operated pump to be easier.

Agreed. See #2. If you have to hold the can, no joy. Most do not (none of the three motorized sail boats I have owned). Also, if you are draining the whole can into the main tank (95% of the time for me) and I can sit the can without holding, there is no reason to regulate the flow or to even watch it. I can do something else, like go fetch the next can. When I come back it will be done and shut off. With an electric pump if would have to stay with it.


Yes, you must have a bag to drop the shaker in after use. But typically I would transfer 2-3 cans at one go.


But for dinghies I use a can with a spout and valve in the handle. Very easy to regulate, but yup, I have to hold it open. Horses for courses.

[CaptTom]

One of those stupid CARB fuel jugs almost killed me this morning at the house.

It was around 4:30 AM. Power had been out since 8AM the previous morning. My primary backup generator decided to stop generating at about 2 AM. I hauled out the secondary backup and fired it up. It's a smaller unit, with a smaller tank, and so needed to be refueled around 4:30. Unfortunately the gas (petrol) from one of those crap, no-vent jugs was next in line to be used up. I mis-judged when the last "glug" would come and it burped all over the hot engine. The gasoline immediately flashed to a white mist.

I moved pretty quickly, and I like to think if the vapors had found a spark I would have escaped with only minor burns. But it could have been much, much worse.

That jug is being taken out of the rotation until a proper spout AND vent can be procured and installed. It just boggles my mind that someone thinks those things are a good idea.

[team karst]

U dont need the jug to be above the deck fill. U need the end of jiggler hose to be below the deck fill.
Yeah, i pitched the flame arrester. Thought it was a filter that doesnt block water anyway.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

One of those stupid CARB fuel jugs almost killed me this morning at the house.

It was around 4:30 AM. Power had been out since 8AM the previous morning. My primary backup generator decided to stop generating at about 2 AM. I hauled out the secondary backup and fired it up. It's a smaller unit, with a smaller tank, and so needed to be refueled around 4:30. Unfortunately the gas (petrol) from one of those crap, no-vent jugs was next in line to be used up. I mis-judged when the last "glug" would come and it burped all over the hot engine. The gasoline immediately flashed to a white mist.

I moved pretty quickly, and I like to think if the vapors had found a spark I would have escaped with only minor burns. But it could have been much, much worse.

That jug is being taken out of the rotation until a proper spout AND vent can be procured and installed. It just boggles my mind that someone thinks those things are a good idea.

Everything you say is true. But for all thread followers ...


Refueling a hot engine is a bad idea and they tell you not to in the instructions. Even without "glugs" there will be fumes coming from the filler.


Also, if there is a flash with a new can, the flame mitigation device prevents the can from flashing back and flame jetting. Your old-school can will not prevent that. So you are trading one danger for another known hazard that has bitten many people (which is why the law passed).



So don't refuel hot engines. You just have to wait a few minutes, until the exhaust manifold goes below boiling, which is not that long.


And no, I am not a fan of most CARB cans. the law was not well executed. But there are some very good cans.


I have one of these and love it. Never a spill, and I can dispense with teaspoon accuracy. Great for spill-free filling of line trimmers and chainsaws. I've actually used it in the lab to fill test containers; I can generally fill 500 ml samples within about 5 ml.



https://www.surecanusa.com/

[team karst]

My honda 2200 takes very near 1 us gallon. The small can gets filled to the 1 G mark from a 5 G jug. So it cant overfill when it runs out at 3am. Now that it is figured out, running a diesel genset [emoji847]

[BlueH2Obound]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

One of those stupid CARB fuel jugs almost killed me this morning at the house.

It was around 4:30 AM. Power had been out since 8AM the previous morning. My primary backup generator decided to stop generating at about 2 AM. I hauled out the secondary backup and fired it up. It's a smaller unit, with a smaller tank, and so needed to be refueled around 4:30. Unfortunately the gas (petrol) from one of those crap, no-vent jugs was next in line to be used up. I mis-judged when the last "glug" would come and it burped all over the hot engine. The gasoline immediately flashed to a white mist.

I moved pretty quickly, and I like to think if the vapors had found a spark I would have escaped with only minor burns. But it could have been much, much worse.

That jug is being taken out of the rotation until a proper spout AND vent can be procured and installed. It just boggles my mind that someone thinks those things are a good idea.

I just ordered these today:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Complete parts for three cans, and includes vent caps/plugs as well, if your jugs didn't come with them originally.

I recently got a new 5 gallon jug. I'm not a total dummy, but I couldn't get the damn nozzle to dispense fuel. There was a QR code, linked to a 9 minute (yes, NINE minute) video which told you how to use it. I watched it, gas trickled out of the spout, and spilled all over when turned upright again. Had two dock mates try and get it to work . . . . still trickled, then spilled . . . . watched the video again . . . . still only trickled . . . and spilled . . . . Tossed the dispensing nozzle and will be replacing with one that works.
Either the nozzle is poorly designed, is defective, or three people, with many years experience, can't correctly figure out their directions!
Seriously, it's a spout. If you use the old style ones correctly, there is very little, if any spillage.
Most of the new ones spill everywhere, causing MUCH more danger/pollution than the old ones ever did. . . . .

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

One of those stupid CARB fuel jugs almost killed me this morning at the house.

It was around 4:30 AM. Power had been out since 8AM the previous morning. My primary backup generator decided to stop generating at about 2 AM. I hauled out the secondary backup and fired it up. It's a smaller unit, with a smaller tank, and so needed to be refueled around 4:30. Unfortunately the gas (petrol) from one of those crap, no-vent jugs was next in line to be used up. I mis-judged when the last "glug" would come and it burped all over the hot engine. The gasoline immediately flashed to a white mist.

I moved pretty quickly, and I like to think if the vapors had found a spark I would have escaped with only minor burns. But it could have been much, much worse.

That jug is being taken out of the rotation until a proper spout AND vent can be procured and installed. It just boggles my mind that someone thinks those things are a good idea.

Trade it in for the No Spill brand cans. The spouts have push buttons and a vent that opens when you push the button, so it's easy to control the flow, unlike the cheap CARB cans with the cheapest spout they could think of to meet the requirements. I find the push button spouts easier than the old style cans personally.

[CaptTom]

I'm keeping my six-gallon cans, thank you very much. I'm not sure which idiot decided we couldn't be trusted with that "extra" gallon, so now we can only buy 5-gallon cans. But I digress...

What I really wanted to remind everyone is that the "AR" in "CARB" stands for "Air Resources." The whole thing was shoved down our throats with the BS excuse of somehow reducing air pollution.

Think about it. It's not like a gas station fuel nozzle. The vapors can not be recovered when pouring from a portable can. When fuel goes in the tank, vapors are coming out, regardless of how clumsy your nozzle is to use. And where do you think all that fuel which spills from those stupid "compliant" spouts goes when it evaporates?

I'm not arguing against trying to develop better technology. And I'm all for protecting the environment. But that's not what's happening here. It's a stupid, political stunt totally devoid of common sense.

Finally, yes, I agree you should never refuel a hot engine. But that's doesn't make it OK to produce spouts which gurgle and splash everywhere.

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Trade it in for the No Spill brand cans.

I wanted to empty my fifty gallons of diesel tankage, so I needed a bunch of cans.
I found a great deal on Midwest Can 5-gallon diesel cans, but they have the crappy spouts.

Fortunately, they can be fixed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpQqQkBkBbU

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by chrisr

over the years i've tried most things, and settled on the pressure system - which works best for me

for those who don't know this : take 2 hoses...one 1/2" or bigger for flow...and another smaller one. insert both into jerry can...other end of big hose into filler. then blow (NOT suck) on the smaller hose (use a rag or similar to seal). the increased pressure in the jerrycan pushes the liquid up and starts the syphon.

works a treat...no batteries...no nasty taste...no spills

cheers,

Yup...made this system for my matching 5 gallon Polyethylene jugs I used for diesel. Had one extra cap, I converted to 2, 3/8" barbed ports. 1 with a tube going to the bottom of the jug and 1 on the other port with a tube to blow in on the outside. It was slick.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

... Think about it. It's not like a gas station fuel nozzle. The vapors can not be recovered when pouring from a portable can. When fuel goes in the tank, vapors are coming out, regardless of how clumsy your nozzle is to use....

I agree many of the cans are crap, but you need to re-think the above.


The way nearly all vapor recovery works is "vapor balancing." When the gas goes into your car, a matching (balancing) volume of vapors are sucked back into the storage tank or can. 1 gallon of gas comes out of the can, 1 gallon of fumes are displaced from your boat's tank, and sucked into the can to replace the 1 gallon that poured out of the can. The reason they pour poorly is that the gasoline and vapors must flow through the same spout, in opposite directions.


And yes, even a small spill errases out any benefit. I think they would have done better to focus on reduced spills. Everyone could have been happy with that.

[rslifkin]

As far as size, 6 gallon cans are still legal. But most manufacturers have standardized on 20 liters as a size, so they're now typically 5.3 gallons as a result.