How do you deal with a bad captain?

[Saltynips]

Sounds like the captain blew the fork budget on rum lol

Just throwing my .2 cents in and IMHO it sounds like he has taught you a lot without you even realizing it!

Happy sailing!

[donradcliffe]

NoQuarter, you didn't happen to to go to UCSC, did you?? Since we are only hearing your side of the story, that would explain a lot. One of my friends happened to open the door to the student union for a feminist with a chip on her shoulder, and got roundly dressed down for his act of human kindness. You have to remember that the captain is from a different generation, and demands for equality from women are not the norm in his experience.

[TheThunderbird]

Madam, with all due respect please accept my opinion, that YOU TOOK IT ALL WRONG.


Sharing a 30' in three over 2 months (??) is really too loong a period.

You have a captain cooking for you, and you complain asking for cutlery!???
You stand up on your ass and graciously take them all for everyone!!!

Yelling is not impolite on board. You need to be herd and understood and EXECUTED. Possibly, you failed at that, and a 3rd order was a real yelling!? Maybe, so f...g what? Pull that sheet! End if story

He put the hard work on tough arms, but no one prevented you from exerting yourself. It was an old man way of gallantry, so why do you feel it DISRESPECTFUL??
I feel like you have problems about it, sorry. I mean, you are the problem.

THERE IS NO SEX ON BOARD, but the fittest does the hard work. EASY

In narrow waters, big commercial ships have right of passage vs. Leisure boats, unless it may be dangerous to you otherwise.in this case, captain was possibile wrong.

People Expect pampering, cocooning and delicate manners onboard. To captain it was no vacation, and it seems you paid nothing for it.... so, what else you want!?
In case of a Real lack of manners, PERSONALLY AIMED AT YOU AS A PERSON, NOT AS A SAILOR, your man had to standout at once, and you two leave orderly and quickly

[Saleen411]

=T

heThunderbird;2211885]Madam, with all due respect please accept my opinion, that YOU TOOK IT ALL WRONG.


THERE IS NO SEX ON BOARD, but the fittest does the hard work. EASY

WHOA!! THAT got my attention. I didn't read all 14 pages, but don't you mean SEXISM?

Maybe not. I've seen a lot of rules posted for crew....no drugs, no alcohol etc...but I've NEVER read nor heard of a NO SEX ON BOARD rule.

Dayum....That would REALLY be harsh man, not to mention TOTALLY inhumane. Blimey.

[DailyLunatic]

Originally Posted by Saleen411

=T

WHOA!! THAT got my attention. I didn't read all 14 pages, but don't you mean SEXISM?

Maybe not. I've seen a lot of rules posted for crew....no drugs, no alcohol etc...but I've NEVER read nor heard of a NO SEX ON BOARD rule.

Dayum....That would REALLY be harsh man, not to mention TOTALLY inhumane. Blimey.

Could it be he meant to say. "There is no GENDER on board."?

-sterling

[TheThunderbird]

Originally Posted by Saleen411

=T

WHOA!! THAT got my attention. I didn't read all 14 pages, but don't you mean SEXISM?

Maybe not. I've seen a lot of rules posted for crew....no drugs, no alcohol etc...but I've NEVER read nor heard of a NO SEX ON BOARD rule.

Dayum....That would REALLY be harsh man, not to mention TOTALLY inhumane. Blimey.

my translation was wrong!

I meant NO GENDER.

Just SAILORS, no Man, no woman either. I treat them all the same way.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by TheThunderbird

my translation was wrong!

I meant NO GENDER.

Just SAILORS, no Man, no woman either. I treat them all the same way.

A good Bi-Sexual Attitude.. way to go..

[akprb]

Interesting thread. What came to mind was "easily triggered" and boats are certainly not "safe spaces".

There may be a reason struggling with finances and losing business.

Attitude, just a feeling.


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[DivingOtter]

if the captain gives a job to someone specific, he's probably doing that for a reason. When I was in the Army that's just the way it was and I gave people tasks based on their physical ability, knowledge and history. I think you should have made it clear that things weren't working out and that arrangements needed to be made vs just jumping ship.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by DivingOtter

if the captain gives a job to someone specific, he's probably doing that for a reason. When I was in the Army that's just the way it was and I gave people tasks based on their physical ability, knowledge and history. I think you should have made it clear that things weren't working out and that arrangements needed to be made vs just jumping ship.

Comparison to the Army, or any service for that matter, are suspect at best.

In the service there is a chain of command above the leader you report to that is obligated to check on said leader, make sure that they are performing at least adequately and to address reports of poor leadership. There are checks and balances and service members are paid in exchange for their obligation to serve out a fixed time knowing full well that some duties entail danger but the service has established procedures to mitigate the danger as much as possible.

In the civilian world there is no such chain of command which can be appealed to to deal with poor leadership and dangerous actions on the part of said leaders nor is there an obligaiton to stay.

The owner was not abandoned at sea nor even in a remote locale, but in a significant port where new crew could be reasonably found or could find transportation to.

It sounds very much like safety concerns were the biggest issue that lead to their departure. Given the skipper's disregard for discharge laws I'm not terribly suspicious of their judgement of his regard for safety.

Whatever travel expenses they incurred being brought to FL would certainly have been worked off in 2 months of helping the boat owner move north.

But let's ignore all the he said, she said stuff. Regardless of how good or bad the skipper was, there was a deep personality conflict going on which led to a loss of trust. Regardless of who was in the right or if there was equal blame to be apportioned, continuing with such a personality conflict and the loss of trust would in and of itself be a danger.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

NoQuarter, you didn't happen to to go to UCSC, did you?? Since we are only hearing your side of the story, that would explain a lot. One of my friends happened to open the door to the student union for a feminist with a chip on her shoulder, and got roundly dressed down for his act of human kindness. You have to remember that the captain is from a different generation, and demands for equality from women are not the norm in his experience.

I have been sailing for 30yr and that puts me somewhere close to this skipper's generation. I still managed to learn that women need to be taught the same skills as men, though sometimes different techniques need to be employed to deal with differences in strength. Not teaching them at all because they aren't strong enough is poor leadership and poor forethought, the skipper may need them to do such tasks while otherwise occupied, off watch or while incapacitated. Also, I learned not to discharge sewage or oily bilge water overboard even if the USCG isn't right there to catch me. I have learned not to yell except in extremis. Finally, I managed to scrounge up some silverware to have on the boat.

Don, up until now I have had a moderate amount of respect for your opinions but the comment about USC was such an obvious putdown that had nothing to do with any part of the original post except that the poster is female I am reconsidering those views of you. I think you are better than that comment.

[TheThunderbird]

I already made my comments.

The noodles/fork issue stroke me, as a pretentious ranting, of being fully serviced by a cooking captain. That sounded too much, to me!!

Again, you two were rather inexperienced, and it generates a continuous Anxiety in Any Captain, believe me. Possibly, you didn't break, lose, scratch, bend, mess up anything... (in 60day time? I doubt it...) yet anxiety remains, for What next? WHAT IF?, on His side.

Too much, maybe!?

If you disagree on anything, you say hello and leave...lF this does not endanger navigation.

Entering a channel may be safe, if he knows his way to, given his previous experience...


Overall, you sound all too pricky and over-reacting.... on top, this latent sexism, or the Pretension to view at everything in a Sexism-Light, typical of the US "culture"... makes me gasp, really.

Any European lady would enjoy being treated as a woman onboard.... with gallantry, rights, courtesy (and yelling too, if winds and noise force to a higher tone of voice).
No one prevents you from any pumping iron (anchor, et alia) up with bare hands, if you want to...

And again, 60days on such a tiny boat, 3pxs...is way too much to anyone, maybe he was mute about his fighting between his needs, words, and the wish to set you free... :-)


Next time, please cook yourself noodles for everyone, and eventually ask anyone else to lay the table and take out cutlery. My style, as a cooking chef onboard, and as the captain too.

Best

[lorrie]

Sex is mot considered on a race boat, grind that winch, faster, faster, now!
Join a race boat for real abuse.


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[TheThunderbird]

Abuse: what i was considered guilty and accountable for, for not considering a reasonably attractive Californian lady sexually interesting.

She got crazy for not being treated as a woman, just crew.

A CF member....

[jtsailjt]

The thing I can't get past is trying to imagine what sort of dynamic between all on board existed when after 2 months together crew feels that they need to ask the captain to use a fork?! If someone was just sitting there and asked me to get them a fork I might suggest that they get their own fork. But if I were closer to the silverware drawer or they were busy with something else or had their hands full or were going to have to climb over someone, I'd probably hand them a fork and think nothing of it at all, whether I was the skipper or crew. I just can't imagine being on a boat, or any other situation for that matter, where any adult was asking another adult if they could use a fork. Then I'm trying to imagine just HOW one would yell at someone for using a fork to eat. Just how could anyone possibly phrase that without me bursting into laughter at them for sounding ridiculous!

As far as dumping goes, that's one of those areas where there are rules and there is reality. Pumping out the bilge is a normal and accepted and necessary thing to do and a little oily film isn't unusual at all. If it was a lot of oil, then repairs should be made as soon as possible. But you really can't expect the captain to not pump out the bilge when it needs it, that leads to transforming a sailing crew into a reluctant swim team and I have a feeling you wouldn't have approved of that at all. When it comes to holding tanks or pumping a head directly overboard, it's pretty normal practice to dump them while underway, even if you aren't technically legal. I'm not saying it's right, just what is. I mostly sail in downeast Maine and if you look on a chart of this area, there are islands everywhere so even though you're far from any pumpout station, you're almost always within a mile or two of a land mass of some sort, so are illegal to dump a holding tank or pump your head directly overboard. In the summertime there are many hundreds of cruising sail and motorboats in my area with an average of 2 or 3 people aboard each one. Most of the lobster boats are either equipped with a bucket that's thrown overboard after each use, or a marine head with no Y-valve or holding tank onboard. I've never seen a lobsterboat use a pumpout station. So all those thousands of boaters in my area are either "holding it" for days at a time, or they are dumping overboard within a mile or so of land. I have never sailed the ICW so don't know what normal practice is there, but just wanted to illustrate that sometimes the various laws pertaining to when it's legal to dump sewage overboard make it tough to comply with the letter of the law so practically speaking some "judgment" is used. Obviously don't dump/pump overboard at a marina slip, but it's not uncommon to dump/pump overboard at some time during the day outside the harbor. Each skipper must listen to his/her own conscience and consider the size of his holding tank and the size of his crew and the area where he's located, then do the math to decide what must be done about the sewage that will inevitably occur.

It's tough to make any judgment as to whether you or the skipper were at fault. We have only one side of the story and weren't there to see the interaction for ourselves. But it's pretty clear that you all weren't communicating well as a crew and unless that changed, it was bound to lead to something unsafe happening. If you didn't see a way to improve communications and also improve the way you felt about and interacted with your skipper, you had no choice but to move on as you did. But I do think that just as a basic courtesy you should have let him know you were leaving so he wouldn't worry, and could begin looking for replacement crew ASAP rather than waiting to see if you were going to come back. Live and learn.